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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Graphics: Gamecube vs. Xbox vs. PS2 vs. Dreamcast

selnor said:
curl-6 said:
Factor 5: Gamecube equal to Xbox

http://www.nintengen.com/2007/09/wii-is-more-powerful-than-xbox-gamecube.html

So let me get  this straight the only one found is by a dev at the time of interview (2001) who is under a contractual deal by Nintendo till 2004 to keep Rogue exclusive to Nintendo.

That is prriceless. Next news Santa Monica Studios defends PS3. LOL.

You did ask for one developer earlier

To be fair, they did try to port it to Xbox but couldn't do it to a satisfactory degree where they'd put so much time and effort into optimising the Gamecube code.



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selnor said:
curl-6 said:
Factor 5: Gamecube equal to Xbox

http://www.nintengen.com/2007/09/wii-is-more-powerful-than-xbox-gamecube.html

So let me get  this straight the only one found is by a dev at the time of interview (2001) who is under a contractual deal by Nintendo till 2004 to keep Rogue exclusive to Nintendo.

That is prriceless. Next news Santa Monica Studios defends PS3. LOL.

They're the only developer who ever grasped the Gamecube's potential fully, so they're the only ones really qualified to talk about it's true power.



selnor said:
ZaneWane said:
developers & anandtech claim XBOX is the superior console last gen

Let me say this once again today: The Xbox is still the most powerful game machine on the planet. Not only is this the greatest compliment that a software engineer can give to a piece of hardware, it is also a reflection of our appreciation of the Xbox for allowing us to run DOA3, DOAX, and now Ninja Gaiden with the quality that we, Team Ninja, hoped for.

http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/action/ninjagaiden/preview_6070870.html

My first thoughts were, what can we do with this game on Xbox that the other consoles couldn`t? So we focused on an increased number of polygons, multitexturing, and designs to exploit the hardware.

http://www.xbnmag.com/article2/0,4364,1268951,00.asp

The number of textures, visual effects and polygons we throw onto the screen would bring any other console to its knees. We really made the most of what the Xbox offers a game developer.

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/news/news_story.php?id=96717

The hard drive for streaming, pixel shaders for some effects, and the raw power. It would not fit on a PlayStation and would change beyond recognition to fit the GameCube. It's not that we've been inefficient either; we're just asking a lot of the hardware, and the Xbox is the only one that can deliver.

http://www.xbox.com/en-us/polygon/20031027-2.htm

Both the GameCube and Xbox are clearly superior to the PS2 in terms of the quality of the graphics seen in games available today. The transition from PS2 to GameCube and/or Xbox is a fairly large leap, but going between GameCube and Xbox is a bit less dramatic.

http://anandtech.com/systems/showdoc.html?i=1566&p=14

I hope thiis shuts up the unbelievable BS that Libro is coming out with.

Its a known fact among every developer and media that Xbox is the most powerful connsole for the 6th gen.

they will not listen



those screens show very littlee and they are both orange :)) nothing to see really

 

oh yea



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Keiner kann ihn bremsen, keiner macht ihm was vor. Immer der richtige Schuss, immer zur richtigen Zeit. Superfussball, Fairer Fussball. Er ist unser Torschützenkönig und Held.

Scoobes said:
TheBardsSong said:

What makes the Gamecube being more powerful than the Xbox argument really funny is that even it's successor's hardware is only barely as/more powerful than the original Xbox, and even then the Xbox beats the Wii in a number of areas. Saying the Gamecube is more powerful than the Xbox is like saying it's more powerful than the Wii.

The funny thing is, the top GameCube games shown in this thread really do outshine the vast majority of games on the Wii which further emphasises the point about developer effort. X-box was the easiest of all the consoles last gen to develop for as it was essentially a PC and it shows in a large number of games with impressive visuals. Gamecube took far more effort by comparison and considerring the small market share it had, few developer were willing to put much effort into the machine. This shows as it's only a few games where the developers have put effort in (like RS2) which show off its visual prowess and are easily on par with the X-box titles.

The Xbox was also hurt by the fact that MS at the time didn't really understand how console development worked and refused to give devs direct access to the hardware until after launch. Most games on Xbox were just using PC engines optomised just enough to get everything to run smoothly and called it a day, or up ports as most games led on PS2. There are only a handful of games that pushed what the system could really do, like Team Ninja who did more at 60fps than most Xbox games did at 30



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zarx said:
Scoobes said:
TheBardsSong said:

What makes the Gamecube being more powerful than the Xbox argument really funny is that even it's successor's hardware is only barely as/more powerful than the original Xbox, and even then the Xbox beats the Wii in a number of areas. Saying the Gamecube is more powerful than the Xbox is like saying it's more powerful than the Wii.

The funny thing is, the top GameCube games shown in this thread really do outshine the vast majority of games on the Wii which further emphasises the point about developer effort. X-box was the easiest of all the consoles last gen to develop for as it was essentially a PC and it shows in a large number of games with impressive visuals. Gamecube took far more effort by comparison and considerring the small market share it had, few developer were willing to put much effort into the machine. This shows as it's only a few games where the developers have put effort in (like RS2) which show off its visual prowess and are easily on par with the X-box titles.

The Xbox was also hurt by the fact that MS at the time didn't really understand how console development worked and refused to give devs direct access to the hardware until after launch. Most games on Xbox were just using PC engines optomised just enough to get everything to run smoothly and called it a day, or up ports as most games led on PS2. There are only a handful of games that pushed what the system could really do, like Team Ninja who did more at 60fps than most Xbox games did at 30

There were quite a few games that I felt made decent enough use of the hardware. I can't imagine many PC engines required much in the way of optimisation considering the hardware was essentially made up of off the shelf PC components. Personally I thought Halo 2 and Far Cry pushed the system byintroducing normal mapping and then there were games like Riddick and Splinter Cell which had excellent lighting. Didn't it also have a lot of Unreal Engine 2 games?



Scoobes said:

There were quite a few games that I felt made decent enough use of the hardware. I can't imagine many PC engines required much in the way of optimisation considering the hardware was essentially made up of off the shelf PC components. Personally I thought Halo 2 and Far Cry pushed the system byintroducing normal mapping and then there were games like Riddick and Splinter Cell which had excellent lighting. Didn't it also have a lot of Unreal Engine 2 games?


well that is what most developers seemed to think as well.

As for Normal Mapping the Xbox GPU had mormal map support built in, it was a trivial effect to implement on Xbox. Which is why a lot of games that used it looked like crap on gamecube as devs instead of just implementing Bump mapping, EMBM or using a hack to implement it using TEVs/EMBM hardware. 



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Check out my hype threads: Cyberpunk, and The Witcher 3!

I don't understand why this argument is still going on, the Xbox's GPU has better features if taken advantage of with better storage capacity, and is basically shit in other areas compared to GC is really about it. It's always been that the fix functions would run like a monster on the TEV and you can customize more on the Xbox. They are about the same overall, if the GC had Xbox's GPU and full size DVD support though, it would have been pretty much GG Xbox.



What areas does the Gamecube beat the Xbox?



TheBardsSong said:
What areas does the Gamecube beat the Xbox?

This article covers some of it:

http://www.purevideogames.net/blog/?p=479

A few quotes for people that don't want to click:

1. Xbox’s system bandwidth isn’t a true 6.4GB/sec, considering any info from the CPU to the GPU and vice-versa is bottlenecked at 1.02GB/sec; one-third of GCN’s overall system bandwidth in realtime.

2. Xbox claims to have more effects than GameCube, and better texturing ability in its GPU, when the XGPU can only do 4 texture layers per pass, and only 4 infinite hardware lights per pass (8 local lights can be done, also). GCN, on the other hand, boasts 8 texture layers per pass, and 8 infinite hardware lights and local lights per pass, all realtime.

3. Tecmo said “was impossible on any system other than Xbox” due to the amount of polygons onscreen, is a 9-10mps game, tops. The character models (which were also claimed to be an impossibility elsewhere) consisted of 9,000 polygons each- the same amount of polygons in characters in StarFox Adventures, Eternal Darkness, and even in Luigi’s Mansion (end boss). Resident Evil 0, however, boasts the highest polygonal “low-end” model to-date- a whopping 25,000 poly character. Now why is this possible (even against prerendered backgrounds) on a “less techincal” console? Why isn’t Xbox smothering GCN to death with games that are impossible to be done on any other console?

4. On CPU performance: GameCube, having this architecture, has a significantly shorter data pipeline than Xbox’s PIII setup (4-7 stages versus up to 14), meaning it can process information more than twice as fast per clock cycle. In fact, this GCN CPU (a PowerPC 750e IBM chip) is often compared to be as fast as a 700mhz machine at 400mhz. So GCN could be 849mhz compared to Xbox’s 733mhz machine performancewise.

5. Rare was contacted, and confirmed that StarFox Adventures does indeed display massive amounts of bumpmaps, and realtime reflection/refraction effects by directly manipulating GCN hardware. When asked about one of the largest areas in the game (Krazoa Palace) regarding fillrate and polygonal display, Rare actually stated this was one of the easier levels to get running on the GCN.

6. Some Xbox fanboys I’ve run across have even been sore enough to say Xbox has faster loadtimes. I then point to Luigi’s Mansion and Metroid Prime, which are impossible on Xbox because they HAVE NO LOADTIMES (the game is constantly streamed from the GameCube disc in burst packets).

7. And summarises with: Either way, neither console can be proven more powerful than the other unless benchmarked properly, since the machines are so totally different from each other.

Basically they're just different.