fordy said:
neerdowell said:
fordy said:
I'll point this out again. Who was the initial antagonist here? Was it the father who decided to give his son a life of torment, rebukes on what many consider should be unconditional love, or the son, who hurt his father's pride?
Is what the father did illegal? No. Was it moral? It depends. Was it ethical? Completely bankrupt. You can sugarcoat it any way you like, but the one thing to take note is, a son was disowned. Extremes like that should NEVER even cross a parent's mind (at least not a good parent's..). Are you really saying we should be talking over whether what the father did was right?
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I'm saying not to think so simply in terms of right and wrong. i take no sides in this argument. Initially, I simply pointed out that people were attacking the father rather than attacking his position. If you ever want to convince someone of your own beliefs, insulting them is not the way to go. Within the father's address you can clearly note that he focused on not supporting the son's lifestyle; he said nothing against the son himself. He even wished him good fortune. He did not seem so concerned about his pride to me; rather than not wishing to enterain a lifestyle he felt betrayed his own convictions.
Furthermore, I don't believe in defining right and wrong so narrowly (I hesitate to even assume there is such a thing). You perceive the father's actions as wrong because they go against your perceived limitations as to what a father's role is. This role is unquestionable, much in the same manner that this father may believe his own beliefs to be unquestionable.
If you are concerned with the father's extremes in regards to what he feels is right, why would you be so willing to believe so strongly in your own sentiments. It's fine to note that the fathe's actions were questionable; however, I think people should exercise caution to not insult the father and be so offended when their own views are questioned.
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I honestly would like to see somebody honestly defending the father's actions, purely for the fact that their stance will be shot to pieces. Yes it's very easy to take the middle ground, but if our society was based that way, there would be no rule of law, no judgement and no consequences to actions. There needs to be logical actions and motives behind both sides.
The insults directed at the father were based on the outcome of his actions. Nobody is forcing him to keep contact with his son, but to many, the very idea that disownment of your own flesh and blood is a reasnable choice for ANY situation AT ALL is enough to put that parent's ability as a parent into question. This is why you see a lot of "bad father" insults. If you disagree, then I'm willing to listen to why you believe disownment of family would EVER be classed as a sensible decision.
Also, keep in mind that the son is a victim here. How would you feel if your parents, the ones who are supposed to love you unconditionally, suddenly take that away? Yes, it can be justified that this may have been hard for the father to do, but the very idea of showing a family member that unconditional love is even being questioned is, in itself, a despicable act. I don't care what any book says about that.
Now on top of this, imagine living in a society that has a good chunk of discrimination towards who you are. In that situation, anyone on the receiving end of this needs all of the support they can. Now, imagine how it would feel if the ones who should be providing the most support for you, the ones who should be standing up for who you are, decide "nope, we're no longer supporting who you are", then how would that make them feel?
Say a child came to you, and claimed that they were being bullied. He is clearly distressed and scared. Do you see any right or wrong side to this? Do you perceive the actions of the bully as wrong because they go against your perceived limitations as to what a bully's role is? Maybe the bully's beliefs are unquestionable...the line has to be drawn somewhere.
As I said before, I wish the son all of the support in the world. He came out, thinking that being honest with his father was the right thing to do, and the father showed him otherwise. The father, once again as I've mentioned before, done nothing legally wrong, but out of all the ways to handle this, he chose to disown his own son. It was approached in a way that showed no remorse whatsoever. No "I love you, but....", just flat out dosownment. Tell me, why should those who insult the father relax when he couldn't even provide the same kind of constraint and reasoning with his own son? In that sense, this is a father that cannot be reasoned with.
I can forsee deep regret from this father on (or close to) his deathbed, that he spent all of his life hating, and it cost him a life with his son. You only get one chance at that...
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