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Forums - General - ‘You’ve made your choice’: Man shares dad’s brutal letter disowning him for being gay

Cub said:

"Sorry, the file you have requested cannot be found on any of our servers at the address specified."

could you please give us another link or at least the title of the article? I'll look it up :)


I am not sure of the research data he/she had but here is some food for thought.....

 

 

"Not every sexual act has a reproductive function ... that's true of humans and non-humans."[21] It appears to be widespread amongst social birds and mammals, particularly the sea mammals and the primates."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals

Side note, did you know that Alpha Hyena females can alter their design to the point their vagina's become penis's and they can mate with other females?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology_and_sexual_orientation#Biological_theories_of_etiology_of_sexual_orientation

Sexual orientation and evolution

Sexual practices that significantly reduce the frequency of heterosexual intercourse also significantly decrease the chances of successful reproduction, and for this reason, they would appear to be maladaptive in an evolutionary context following a simple Darwinian model of natural selection—on the assumption that homosexuality would reduce this frequency.

The so-called "gay uncle" hypothesis posits that people who themselves do not have children may nonetheless increase the prevalence of their family's genes in future generations by providing resources (food, supervision, defense, shelter, etc.) to the offspring of their closest relatives. This hypothesis is an extension of the theory of kin selection.



      

      

      

Greatness Awaits

PSN:Forevercloud (looking for Soul Sacrifice Partners!!!)

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forevercloud3000 said:
Kantor said:
Player1x3 said:


...its so logical i just came xD

I'm trying to get angry about that image, but I honestly can't. It's just so illogical and circular that it's hilarious.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism 
Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.[1][2] In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities.[3][4][5] Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist.[4][5][6][7] Atheism is contrasted with theism,[8][9] which in its most general form is the belief that at least one deity exists.

There is no definitive proof that their is a god, no physical or tangible evidence. Yet Religion will argue that there is no proof there isn't either. The only hint of physical proof for christianity would be the Bible. But why is this seen as truth? Because it is the word of god. But how do you know its the actual word of God? Because the Bible tells me so................. :/

Atheists simply are saying show me the proof? And seeing as you cannot your conclusions are faulty. I always found one very big falacy in the whole one god religions. That would be their belief that it is impossible for the universe as we know it to be complete happenstance, a series of coincedences, an accident if you will. Ok, well if everything must come from a source of sorts, which in this case is an omnipitant beeing, where did God come from? Who created him? By their logic alone it is impossible for him to just..."BE" and it must be devine calculations at work. So why do we believe in God as apposed to God's God? I mean, we dont worship our parents do we? We respect them but we are suppose to look past them to the greater hiarchy of things. So why stop there when you can worship God's God's God. And the paradox never ends. 

How about we just stick to what we know,studied,learned for the past 2000 years. Using reasonable logic dictated by well known facts. Hypothesizing a possible answer with truth and not just filling in blanks because we don't want to have to think.

I love how Doctor Who/Torchwood approach this subject because they tap into the truth behind the lies. In their world, Aliens are finally realized to be real. In that instant, massive suicide breaks. When asked they say it is because many cannot cope with the scariness of the unknown. The fact that we are not the center of the universe and we learn just how small and insignificant we are as an individual. There entire sense of being implodes upon itself, religion, their job, their families, it all begins to feel mighty trivial. Which just goes to show many would rather live in blissful ignorance than face cold and very dark reality. I can understand it a little, I get this sinking feeling when I watch documentaries of how vast and limitless space is.

Perhaps I wasn't clear. I'm agreeing with you. I mean that the image is ridiculous. Atheism is the absence of belief in a deity, which is perfectly rational considering the lack of evidence. To try and turn that around and try to make it instinctively illogical requires a fair bit of mental gymnastics.



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@Kantor
lol I know you were, I just didn't want to go back any more pages to quote just him haha. I have just had....you know...all my life to contemplate on this subject so I have a lot to say LMAO :)



      

      

      

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fordy said:
neerdowell said:
fordy said:


I'll point this out again. Who was the initial antagonist here? Was it the father who decided to give his son a life of torment, rebukes on what many consider should be unconditional love, or the son, who hurt his father's pride?

Is what the father did illegal? No. Was it moral? It depends. Was it ethical? Completely bankrupt. You can sugarcoat it any way you like, but the one thing to take note is, a son was disowned. Extremes like that should NEVER even cross a parent's mind (at least not a good parent's..). Are you really saying we should be talking over whether what the father did was right?


I'm saying not to think so simply in terms of right and wrong. i take no sides in this argument. Initially, I simply pointed out that people were attacking the father rather than attacking his position. If you ever want to convince someone of your own beliefs, insulting them is not the way to go. Within the father's address you can clearly note that he focused on not supporting the son's lifestyle; he said nothing against the son himself. He even wished him good fortune. He did not seem so concerned about his pride to me; rather than not wishing to enterain a lifestyle he felt betrayed his own convictions.

Furthermore, I don't believe in defining right and wrong so narrowly (I hesitate to even assume there is such a thing). You perceive the father's actions as wrong because they go against your perceived limitations as to what a father's role is. This role is unquestionable, much in the same manner that this father may believe his own beliefs to be unquestionable.

If you are concerned with the father's extremes in regards to what he feels is right, why would you be so willing to believe so strongly in your own sentiments. It's fine to note that the fathe's actions were questionable; however, I think people should exercise caution to not insult the father and be so offended when their own views are questioned.


I honestly would like to see somebody honestly defending the father's actions, purely for the fact that their stance will be shot to pieces. Yes it's very easy to take the middle ground, but if our society was based that way, there would be no rule of law, no judgement and no consequences to actions. There needs to be logical actions and motives behind both sides.

The insults directed at the father were based on the outcome of his actions. Nobody is forcing him to keep contact with his son, but to many, the very idea that disownment of your own flesh and blood is a reasnable choice for ANY situation AT ALL is enough to put that parent's ability as a parent into question. This is why you see a lot of "bad father" insults. If you disagree, then I'm willing to listen to why you believe disownment of family would EVER be classed as a sensible decision.

Also, keep in mind that the son is a victim here. How would you feel if your parents, the ones who are supposed to love you unconditionally, suddenly take that away? Yes, it can be justified that this may have been hard for the father to do, but the very idea of showing a family member that unconditional love is even being questioned is, in itself, a despicable act. I don't care what any book says about that.

Now on top of this, imagine living in a society that has a good chunk of discrimination towards who you are. In that situation, anyone on the receiving end of this needs all of the support they can. Now, imagine how it would feel if the ones who should be providing the most support for you, the ones who should be standing up for who you are, decide "nope, we're no longer supporting who you are", then how would that make them feel?

Say a child came to you, and claimed that they were being bullied. He is clearly distressed and scared. Do you see any right or wrong side to this? Do you perceive the actions of the bully as wrong because they go against your perceived limitations as to what a bully's role is? Maybe the bully's beliefs are unquestionable...the line has to be drawn somewhere. 

As I said before, I wish the son all of the support in the world. He came out, thinking that being honest with his father was the right thing to do, and the father showed him otherwise. The father, once again as I've mentioned before, done nothing legally wrong, but out of all the ways to handle this, he chose to disown his own son. It was approached in a way that showed no remorse whatsoever. No "I love you, but....", just flat out dosownment. Tell me, why should those who insult the father relax when he couldn't even provide the same kind of constraint and reasoning with his own son? In that sense, this is a father that cannot be reasoned with.

I can forsee deep regret from this father on (or close to) his deathbed, that he spent all of his life hating, and it cost him a life with his son. You only get one chance at that... 

This is a post I can respect highly,.

I'll address just one point for now, because to me your post is exactly the kind of thing I want/need to hear coming from the other side of the debate, and I take it as food for thought. It's too bad most posts on topic like these are flaming, so kudos for this.

Now, for the point, it's bolded.

1) Two wrongs don't make a right

2) Your anger is misdirected, because some of us may share similar views with the father but that doesn't mean we would do the same thing, and even if we did, behaving hostile is fueling more hate and adding fuel to the fire.



Zappykins said:
Golly gee, is their ANY kid that doesn't do some things their parent don't like? Correct me if I am wrong - but doesn't Christian's teach say that a Father (or God) will love his children no matter what?

So this 'father' misses one of the core tenants of Christianity.

And yes, that's one person giving Christian's a bad name.

Disowned by your Father, so sad, hugs and Cupcakes for James.

Yupidy yup yup!

That's exactly what I was thinking...



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Why am I not surprised the turned into a Religious Argument?



NintendoPie said:
Why am I not surprised the turned into a Religious Argument?

it's about the atrocities committed against gays...considering there are no 'anti-gay' arguments that aren't religiously motivated, it's hard to have an argument that isn't simply "Gays are cool, but I'm not interested" and that's the end.  



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Runa216 said:

Atheism isn't that illogical at all.  While we live in a world, where, yes, religion is a thing and therefore it forces people to consider the possibility of a divine creator, the fact of the matter is that there's absolutely no logic backing up the idea that the world, or at least the universe, was created by a higher power.  Science does plenty to support the theory that there is no god by taking away all the things he supposedly did.  While we're still left with a 'beginning' or 'origin' to explain, making a higher power explain it just opens up more questions, such as "If god created the universe, what created God?"  Beliving that the universe was not created by a higher power is not illogical, it makes perfect sense from a scientific standpoint. 

frankly, your crusade agaisnt atheism is really not winning you any favors. 

And what does your picture prove?  It has nothing to do with our argument.  Basically it says that people only believe what's convenient for them at the time, which really isn't an argument in favor of anything you seem to believe in. 

It's very dishonest. Bold is a very dishonest statement. The question remains for the atheist as much as for the deist.

What are you debating for if you're not going to be genuine in your approach?

EDIT: Unless I misunderstand what you mean. Maybe the thought wasn't pushed far enough for you to understand why I might have misread you. For oringins, someone may also find an answer (such as alternate universes and the ability for two universes to intersect). At that point, you would once again be left with a question to answer. So naturalism and faith both lead to the infinite need for answers. Why would one be simple than another?



happydolphin said:

It's very dishonest. Bold is a very dishonest statement. The question remains for the atheist as much as for the deist.

What are you debating for if you're not going to be genuine in your approach?


Athiests don't have to prove anything because athiests are not making claims.



happydolphin said:
Runa216 said:

Atheism isn't that illogical at all.  While we live in a world, where, yes, religion is a thing and therefore it forces people to consider the possibility of a divine creator, the fact of the matter is that there's absolutely no logic backing up the idea that the world, or at least the universe, was created by a higher power.  Science does plenty to support the theory that there is no god by taking away all the things he supposedly did.  While we're still left with a 'beginning' or 'origin' to explain, making a higher power explain it just opens up more questions, such as "If god created the universe, what created God?"  Beliving that the universe was not created by a higher power is not illogical, it makes perfect sense from a scientific standpoint. 

frankly, your crusade agaisnt atheism is really not winning you any favors. 

And what does your picture prove?  It has nothing to do with our argument.  Basically it says that people only believe what's convenient for them at the time, which really isn't an argument in favor of anything you seem to believe in. 

It's very dishonest. Bold is a very dishonest statement. The question remains for the atheist as much as for the deist.

What are you debating for if you're not going to be genuine in your approach?

EDIT: Unless I misunderstand what you mean. Maybe the thought wasn't pushed far enough for you to understand why I might have misread you. For oringins, someone may also find an answer (such as alternate universes and the ability for two universes to intersect). At that point, you would once again be left with a question to answer. So naturalism and faith both lead to the infinite need for answers. Why would one be simple than another?

How is it dishonest?  The only 'argument' that religion has to support its existence is that we 'had' to come from somewhere, and that the big bang theory isn't 'good enough', and that we need to have come from somewhere.  the argument is that if we supposedly need a creator, why is it just okay to make THAT leap of logic but not have that same leap of logic to their god?



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