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Forums - Politics Discussion - Time for gun law reforms in the USA?

Kasz216 said:

Maybe your US centric or something, but you know a lot of countries use Heroin as a pain killer... largely because it's actually superiror to Morphine in a lot of ways.

The UK is an example of this.

 

And I mean hell... Heroin addicts are given Methadone... which is essentially well regulated heroin.  Plenty of ex addicts live regular lives.

So, what, you want heroin to be a regulated medical drug? You can't exactly walk into the corner drug store and pick up a batch of morphine, you know, and there are similar reasons for that.



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I believe guns are the same way.

Whether it be drugs, guns, knives, etc... it all comes down to the person who is in posession of these items on whether or not it will be used for bad things and not just a product of the items being available to everyone. Getting rid of them will not solve the big time issues because if those with bad motive want them, they will get them.

There are also a lot more good eggs out there then there are bad eggs and those good ones should have the right to protect themselves. Banning them would leave the invaded home owner with no option but a kitchen knife while that intruder recieved a gun through the many black market avenues out there available to them.



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the_dengle said:
Kasz216 said:

Maybe your US centric or something, but you know a lot of countries use Heroin as a pain killer... largely because it's actually superiror to Morphine in a lot of ways.

The UK is an example of this.

 

And I mean hell... Heroin addicts are given Methadone... which is essentially well regulated heroin.  Plenty of ex addicts live regular lives.

So, what, you want heroin to be a regulated medical drug? You can't exactly walk into the corner drug store and pick up a batch of morphine, you know, and there are similar reasons for that.

No.  I want it, and other perscription drugs to be regulated regular drugs.  They really aren't any different then other drugs,  the quality of life of users would greatly increase and a lot of money would be taken out of the pockets of criminals and gangs.

The point was, it isn't as dangerous as you think... and actually less dangerous then a lot of medicinal drugs that are legal for use.

The reason it isn't legal is because it's cheap.



Euphoria14 said:
thranx said:

The best way to stop people from doing drugs is to not lie to them about the effects like the government does. And for people to see examples of drug users around them. If crack is so bad and people use it and it makes their lives sucks, people will see that and not use it. With it being illegal these people are often not in view or locked up so the public doesn't see what damage it does. If it doesn't damage people so bad that they are able to function and live a happy life what is the problem?  Theer is also the problem of people starting on drugs that aren't as bad but switching to worse ones as the price rises. If drugs were cheaper there would be no reason to switch from pain pills to heroin. From coke to crack. Alot of the same arguments against drugs can be made against unhealthy food too.

Been wishing the US would just legalize Marijuana for years now. I never understood why it was banned.

I smoke up about 3-4 times a week after work hours and work a good job so that I have been able to send my daughter to pre-preschool/daycare  4 days a week since she was 1 rather than let her sit in front of the TV. She already counts to 10 in Spanish along with maybe 20-30 other words consisting of adjectives, colors, etc..., counts to 20 in English, she can write her name already and she knows the entire alphabet and is in the beginning stages of reading. She also only took 2 weeks (Only totalling around 2 hours though) with a bike to learn to pedal on her own as well as turn properly and she can flip backwards off the swing set bar while holding onto the rings. I also decided to measure her jump from a stand still position to see how far of a jump she can make. 90% of the time she surpasses 24 inches.

Large majority of children her age can't even do half of what I just mentioned, and she just turned 3 a little over a month ago. She was recently placed into a new class consisting of children older than her because the teachers and owner felt that leaving her with her own age group would hold her back. They say she is very advanced for her age, even more so physically.

Now, if you're wondering why I choose to smoke pot, it is because I like how it makes me feel. It makes me active for some strange reason and unlike alchohol I am still 100% functional and god forbid something were to happen I am still able to take care of the issue. It also helps me to sleep, which is why I tend to smoke after my daughter goes to bed.

It's just an all natural plant that one could grow by dropping a seed in the ground, lol. It's not synthetic or anything.

 

My fiance will smoke with me occassionally, but she prefers to just stick to her Vicodens (Car accident has left her with a bad back). Neither of us have upgraded to worse drugs, although they tell you people do. She is currently working as a nursing supervisor at a pediatrics office.

 

 

Most would assume I am the polar opposite if I mention that I smoke. I get lectures all the time...

I know I would rather my kid do the same instead of drinking alcohol, but that's just me. Although I of course will not bring it up or suggest she start either of them, lol.

 

 

Hell, even the (arguably) greatest Olympian of all time Michael Phelps like a hit or two from the bong.

 

 

Anyways, that's it for my little story, lol.


Marijuana is an odd drug ...

While the reasoning behind it being banned are questionable when you consider the legality of Alcohol and Tobacco, it would never pass the FDA's rules today; primarily because several legitimate studies have shown a significant increase in mental illness associated to long term use of Marijuana. This isn't an argument about whether it should be legal or illegal, but its legality is partially based on a regulatory system that was not in place for Alcohol or tobacco.

As for Marijuana being natural, the plant itself is natural but grown naturally it doesn't produce enough THC for someone to get high. The process for creating drugs from Marijuana are roughly as unnatural as industrial Tobacco production, which is completely unnatural. If you came accross a wild patch of Marijuana, since there would be no unfertilized female plants that had grown for long enough to produce significant quantities of THC in their buds, you could smoke an entire plant and (besides suffering smoke inhalation) you would see no significant effects.



HappySqurriel said:
Euphoria14 said:
thranx said:

The best way to stop people from doing drugs is to not lie to them about the effects like the government does. And for people to see examples of drug users around them. If crack is so bad and people use it and it makes their lives sucks, people will see that and not use it. With it being illegal these people are often not in view or locked up so the public doesn't see what damage it does. If it doesn't damage people so bad that they are able to function and live a happy life what is the problem?  Theer is also the problem of people starting on drugs that aren't as bad but switching to worse ones as the price rises. If drugs were cheaper there would be no reason to switch from pain pills to heroin. From coke to crack. Alot of the same arguments against drugs can be made against unhealthy food too.

Been wishing the US would just legalize Marijuana for years now. I never understood why it was banned.

I smoke up about 3-4 times a week after work hours and work a good job so that I have been able to send my daughter to pre-preschool/daycare  4 days a week since she was 1 rather than let her sit in front of the TV. She already counts to 10 in Spanish along with maybe 20-30 other words consisting of adjectives, colors, etc..., counts to 20 in English, she can write her name already and she knows the entire alphabet and is in the beginning stages of reading. She also only took 2 weeks (Only totalling around 2 hours though) with a bike to learn to pedal on her own as well as turn properly and she can flip backwards off the swing set bar while holding onto the rings. I also decided to measure her jump from a stand still position to see how far of a jump she can make. 90% of the time she surpasses 24 inches.

Large majority of children her age can't even do half of what I just mentioned, and she just turned 3 a little over a month ago. She was recently placed into a new class consisting of children older than her because the teachers and owner felt that leaving her with her own age group would hold her back. They say she is very advanced for her age, even more so physically.

Now, if you're wondering why I choose to smoke pot, it is because I like how it makes me feel. It makes me active for some strange reason and unlike alchohol I am still 100% functional and god forbid something were to happen I am still able to take care of the issue. It also helps me to sleep, which is why I tend to smoke after my daughter goes to bed.

It's just an all natural plant that one could grow by dropping a seed in the ground, lol. It's not synthetic or anything.

 

My fiance will smoke with me occassionally, but she prefers to just stick to her Vicodens (Car accident has left her with a bad back). Neither of us have upgraded to worse drugs, although they tell you people do. She is currently working as a nursing supervisor at a pediatrics office.

 

 

Most would assume I am the polar opposite if I mention that I smoke. I get lectures all the time...

I know I would rather my kid do the same instead of drinking alcohol, but that's just me. Although I of course will not bring it up or suggest she start either of them, lol.

 

 

Hell, even the (arguably) greatest Olympian of all time Michael Phelps like a hit or two from the bong.

 

 

Anyways, that's it for my little story, lol.


Marijuana is an odd drug ...

While the reasoning behind it being banned are questionable when you consider the legality of Alcohol and Tobacco, it would never pass the FDA's rules today; primarily because several legitimate studies have shown a significant increase in mental illness associated to long term use of Marijuana. This isn't an argument about whether it should be legal or illegal, but its legality is partially based on a regulatory system that was not in place for Alcohol or tobacco.

As for Marijuana being natural, the plant itself is natural but grown naturally it doesn't produce enough THC for someone to get high. The process for creating drugs from Marijuana are roughly as unnatural as industrial Tobacco production, which is completely unnatural. If you came accross a wild patch of Marijuana, since there would be no unfertilized female plants that had grown for long enough to produce significant quantities of THC in their buds, you could smoke an entire plant and (besides suffering smoke inhalation) you would see no significant effects.

Probably explains why I cut down (2) plants I had a few years back and the high was very minimal. Brought it with me on a trip to the Poconos after drying it out and breaking it down.

You learn something every day. I always thought I might have plucked it too early. Haven't grown since.  

 

Never heard anything about mental illness though being linked. Have yet to see that effect happen on anyone and I know plenty of people who smoke.

Only time they experience what other would deem as "Mental Illness" is just them being stupid because they are stoned.

 

It's probably just like those studies that say your child will grow up smarter if you smoke pot during pregnancy. Also heard it has natural anti-tumor properties as well.

 

 

Sucks that the FDA would probably not pass it, even though the things that are allowed are linked to liver disease, heart disease, lung disease and various forms of cancers, along with making people violent. Pot makes you happy, and you'll still be happy without those brain cells, lol.



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SamuelRSmith said:
the2real4mafol said:
Kasz216 said:
the_dengle said:
Kasz216 said:

Let people use it.

Heroin legalized would be incredibly cheap...

I fail to see how legalizing heroin would somehow result in fewer people being addicted to it. There is literally nothing you can tell or show me that would overcome my common sense laughing at how ridiculous it is to assume that making something legal and cheap would NOT result in its use becoming more widespread, no matter WHAT it is.

"The costs aren't exactly dissuading anyone from doing it?" You're nuts. Maybe people who are already addicted are willing to do whatever it takes to get their hands on it, but people who AREN'T addicted are way less likely to try something new if it's outrageously expensive. Come on, man! Seriously, don't argue with common sense!

We are getting so far off-topic here. GUN CONTROL. GET ON THAT.

Fewer people wouldn't be doing it.  However fewer people would be made destitute about it.

The problem with "common sense" is that common sense isn't statistically tested and often flies in the face of reality and research.

Gun Control... is exactly the same thing.  Statisics generally show that in the US, removal of gun control, even by outside forces, tends to lead to a decrease in crimes and crimes comitted involving guns.

I'm not sure how you really have a topic after doing the research... outside calls for "common sense".

If you read statistical studies, or books on research you'll find that "common sense" is wrong way more often then you would think, and this is generally one of the biggest issues in the way of policy improvement.

Why is crime so high in america's cities then? if gun control don't exist?

War on Drugs is the reason for around half the crime.

The War on Drugs, btw, is just further evidence that the Government cannot ban anything, they can only make the situation worse.

Yeah the ban of Alcohol was another such thing.



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the_dengle said:
SamuelRSmith said:

War on Drugs is the reason for around half the crime.

The War on Drugs, btw, is just further evidence that the Government cannot ban anything, they can only make the situation worse.

You're right! Let's end all of the government bans. Civilians should be allowed to own atomic warheads! (1) And people should be allowed to carry guns into movie theaters and religious buildings too, right? (2) Because if people in those places had had guns, those shootings would have ended real fast. Let's not stop there, everyone on airplanes should be equipped with an assault rifle! (3) Surely this will reduce the possibility of further violence in the air. (4)


1) Whether or not  citizens should be able to own nuclear warheads is neither here, nor there. Within the next couple of decades, the average citizen will have the ability to possess weapons of mass destruction (though, probably chemical or biological.... a nuclear bomb would only be possible if a nefarious state actor decides to put the bombs in the hands of private citizens)... and there is absolutely nothing Government can do about it.

Government can't ban or enforce anything. Anybody can aquire just about anything they want - drugs, guns, prostitution, abortion, with or without Government approval. Trust me, I could get any of those things with ease, and at low cost, in just about any Western country. And so could you.

2) Well, that depends on the property owner. If the owner of the cinema didn't want guns on their property, then they can enforce those bans through whatever means they so choose, same with the church.

3) "Equipped" implies that the guns should be provided... that would be down to the airline company, if they wished to have that as a company policy. Unless you want Government provision, which is theft.

4) I'll let you have that one. I'll keep that arrow in my back.



there seems to be so much mis-information, speculation and over-all bias on this issue that I thought I'd just make mention of a few points concerning gun laws.

Some people seem to think that you can just walk into any gun shop in the US and if you have the green, walk out with auto-matic weapons.  Although many of the states do differ in how the laws are carried out, most states do have sufficient laws that prevent people that shouldn't have them from acquiring them.  That said, gun laws can differ from county to county, but most are more strict then less.

Yes, I myself do have a legal pistol permit.  In my county, you need to be of specific age and show proof of a legal purchase/downpayment of a pistol and fill out a several page application in which you need 4 people to sign and vouch for you.  Those 4 people also need to fill out a character reference sheet and vouch for your character, frame of mind and ability...and send it in to the country sheriff's office and then at that point are able to interviewed if need be.  You need to make an appointment with the sheriff's office when all forms are received to turn in your application, proof of purchase/downpayment and certificate of passing an official pistol permit course...as well as a letter to the court judge explaning your request and reasoning for said permit.  In the letter to the judge you also need to specify how you will be securing the firearm once you own it (ie. biometric gun vault etc.).  All paperwork is to be notorized by a licensed notary as well.  At that point (in my county) it is about a 6 month wait for your personal interview by the court judge.  He/she is the deciding factor after reviewing your history, references and the interview.  If you are granted a permit, you get a form to turn into the dealer and retreive your firearm.  In some counties there are several days in between before you can pick it up.  Upon picking it up you fill out additional paperwork and a background check call is made.   This is for a restricted concealed carry permit.  Further training and applications are necessary but do not guarantee getting unrestricted.  Surrounding counties near me can require different and /or more difficult requirements.

Now, you don't go through all that for semi-automatic shotgun or rifle but there are background checks made at point of purchase.

My point here, is that the laws in place are intended to and are sufficient in weeding out undesireables from acquiring firearms that they shouldn't have.  People that have legal pistol permits are for the most part, very responsible law abiding citizens that keep their arms secured and themselves pose no threat to another human being.  Likewise, criminals do not carry legal permits or registered firearms...they are criminals remember.  They are already not supposed to be carrying firearms and do anyway illegally.  Stands to reason that banning all guns doesn't stop those individuals from having firearms and committing heinous crimes, because they don't get firearms legally...so they will always have them.

just a little food for thought.