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Forums - Politics Discussion - Time for gun law reforms in the USA?

the2real4mafol said:
Marks said:

Geez you people. If you take away guns from citizens that means only police and criminals have guns, is that really what you want? Who will defend your life when an armed robber breaks into your house or place of business? It won't be the police because they're there to arrest the criminal after the fact, not to save your life.

If just one law abiding person in that movie theatre in Colorado was carrying a concealed weapon he could have stopped the "Batman massacre" before it even began. What did the police do besides bag and tag the victims?

So you're telling me you could kill someone? Also, most of the time you can use whatever is at hand to fight a burguler.

where's does the constitution define the line between murder and lawful gun ownership?


Yeah I could kill someone if he broke into my home or business. I can't just ask him politely to leave if he has a gun. Of course I'd first give him the chance to drop his gun (if I had one as well pointed at him), I wouldn't just shoot first...but I value my life and my family's life more than that of a killer.

And yeah of course you could try using what's at hand, but a kitchen knife or baseball bat really won't do much against a burglar who has a gun that he got on the black market regardless of any and all gun control measures.

Of course I would love to see a world without guns, but that isn't realistic. 



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HappySqurriel said:
chapset said:

...

good day

Your statistics demonstrated that they were purchased legally by a straw purchaser, purchased illegally by a criminal, and used in a crime ... None of the guns were purchased legally to be used in a crime.

The problem isn't that these guns are available for sale legally, the problem is that they are for sale illegally.

Edit: To use an analogy ...

Several years ago it was common (locally anyways) for criminals to steal trucks to crash them through the walls of pharmacies to steal narcotics. Would you argue that the problem was with the availability of trucks, how easy it was for these trucks to be stolen, or with criminals having motive to steal narcotics from pharmacies?

criminals send their relative, friends or whatever to buy their guns for them if you make it harder for the average guy to buy a gun you then make it harder for criminals to get guns is that so hard to see, so the point of baning guns mean only criminals will have gun doesn't make sense since they get their guns initialy from law abiding citizens.

The problem in the US is that they have way to many guns, which lead to waste, by waste a mean a lot of guns are not accounted for and are easly obtained by criminals if you cut the number of guns you cut the availibity to citizens and to criminals which lead to less gun crimes.



Bet reminder: I bet with Tboned51 that Splatoon won't reach the 1 million shipped mark by the end of 2015. I win if he loses and I lose if I lost.

Viper1 said:
If demand exists and you remove a legal market, you create a black market. This is economics 101.

Banning them won't stop them.

But the ban raises prices, often exponentially over production costs or market value, and that alone creates severe impediments.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

mrstickball said:
Mr Khan said:
It's long since overdue. The NRA has a stranglehold on our society and would have us all live in fear of one another, mixing racism and paranoia in good measure. American gun owners make up less than 1% of the world's population, but own 1/3rd of the world's guns, and nobody needs that many guns.

You don't need assault rifles for any reason other than mass murder or trying to overthrow the government, for one. Anyone who owns one should categorically fall under police suspicion.

The AR-15, an assault rifle, is the best selling firearm in America, and has been for awhile. Why, then, don't we see even a moderate amount of crimes being committed with assault rifles?

an AR-15 is not an assault rifle.

first off, assualt weapon is really a made up term, that progressives came up with a few decades ago to push gun control.

by definition, any weapon you use to attack some-one is an assualt weapon. a a 1700's flint lock pistol can be an assault weapon.

but lets for sake off argument say assualt weapon is a justifiable term. by almost all agreed upon standards, an assault weapon is fully automatic.

AR-15 are not fully auto, less than 2-3 percent of all gun are full auto. the amount of crimes committed by PEOPLE weilding full auto's is nearly statistically inmeasurable because it just doesnt happen.

"assault weapons" are incredibly hard to come by, very very expensive. i would press you to find an assault weapon for less than $10,000. then you have to get a tax stamp from the government, registar it with the atf, put your name, records, finger prints on atf records, get a background check, etc.

its an incredibly long and hard proccess to get one



haxxiy said:
"The creeping loss of democracy by shifting real power away from elected officials and to non-elected judges, other appointed officials [...] and international bodies."

"A massive publicity drive to call for gun control in the name of law and order, but whose real purpose is to directly cripple the military potential of the working class..."

- Thomas W. Chittum, army veteran, on his 1995 book "Civil War II: the Coming Breakup of America".

I rest my case.

The working class doesn't need military potential. The armed revolutions of yore are no longer necessary, and People Power is all that is needed.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

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chapset said:
HappySqurriel said:
chapset said:

...

good day

Your statistics demonstrated that they were purchased legally by a straw purchaser, purchased illegally by a criminal, and used in a crime ... None of the guns were purchased legally to be used in a crime.

The problem isn't that these guns are available for sale legally, the problem is that they are for sale illegally.

Edit: To use an analogy ...

Several years ago it was common (locally anyways) for criminals to steal trucks to crash them through the walls of pharmacies to steal narcotics. Would you argue that the problem was with the availability of trucks, how easy it was for these trucks to be stolen, or with criminals having motive to steal narcotics from pharmacies?

criminals send their relative, friends or whatever to buy their guns for them if you make it harder for the average guy to buy a gun you then make it harder for criminals to get guns is that so hard to see, so the point of baning guns mean only criminals will have gun doesn't make sense since they get their guns initialy from law abiding citizens.

The problem in the US is that they have way to many guns, which lead to waste, by waste a mean a lot of guns are not accounted for and are easly obtained by criminals if you cut the number of guns you cut the availibity to citizens and to criminals which lead to less gun crimes.

Suppose you're lucky enough to ban the legal sale and manufacture of these weapons, how will that prevent criminals from getting their hands on them in a world where you can print guns?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/markgibbs/2012/07/28/the-end-of-gun-control/



Mr Khan said:
HappySqurriel said:
Mr Khan said:
 

If not suspicious, then they're wasting money on something they clearly don't need.

So iPhones should be banned?

iPhones actually have a use, and you can't kill someone with an iPhone (at least, not without a helluva lot of work). If no-one is shooting anyone with them, and they can't be hunting and you sure as hell don't need an AR-15 for personal defense, then why are Americans wasting all their money? Your assertion would be valid if people bought iPhones, but then there were no records of anyone actually using the things.

http://gunssavelives.net/self-defense/video/son-uses-dads-ar-15-to-defend-home/

From 2010: A 15 year old TX boy uses his dad’s AR-15 to defend his home, and 12 year old sister from 2 home invaders who had broken into his home. One suspect was hit multiple times. Please SHARE or LIKE this post so that people can see that Guns Do Save Lives everyday!



Mr Khan said:
Viper1 said:
If demand exists and you remove a legal market, you create a black market. This is economics 101.

Banning them won't stop them.

But the ban raises prices, often exponentially over production costs or market value, and that alone creates severe impediments.

Sure, it might raise them some but just as with any model of economics, the market will come to longer term equilibrium that will balance price with demand and supply. 

 

Supply will not be cut so short that price goes sky high.  And even then, gun theft will rise just as much to match.



The rEVOLution is not being televised

HappySqurriel said:
Viper1 said:
the2real4mafol said:

I knew that knives and bats kill too, just like guns. These things oviously happen for other reasons, like economic or social reasons, just help those people, it's amazing how America's is the richest, most powerful country in the whole world yet so many live in poverty, yet so many live in prison among other serious problems, yet it is so respected in this world. What's amazing is it's so rich but so in debt it can't even help it's own people, they don't feel apart of society, so they commit crimes to do, even if it's murder, they just show up. This sort of thing, shows the major flaws in capitalism.

How in the world did you come to that conclusion?   So if policy at one restaraunt is flawed, that means the concept of a restaurant itself is flawed?

Capitalism isn't bad, it's just that America has sucked at proving it lately.

He probably just wants to live in a communist state ...

That way he can "enjoy" living in an economy that doesn't meet the basic needs of the average citizen in order to ensure the state's control over them.

i may have north korea's kim il sung as my avatar but that don't mean i want to live there, i'm happy in Britain. i'm a socialist NOT a communist (like America thinks, they are not the same thing). I believe that the greed of a few shouldn't affect the rest of us, it wasn't our fault they fucked up, is it? of course, it does anyway. Government should be there to help the neediest and offer basic services like healthcare and a good education, they definitely SHOULD not repress their people, that's what i hated about North korea and the former USSR. Capitalism is all good when everything goes well and everyone lives a decent lifestyle and has a job, but since the recession 5 years ago, so many people have lost what they had, it's just not right, it leads to higher crime and higher suicide, because money is everything. Your right, capitalism isn't bad but its not perfect either, as the few lucky people to make up to the top, fucked it because they got greedy. I mean to show how capitalism is flawed, lets compare figures, the US (a developed economy) poverty line is 15.7% of the population, with China (a developing economy) at 13.4%. Surely something is wrong there, the USA should have less poverty shouldn't it, if the American lifestyle is so much better than the Chinese



Xbox One, PS4 and Switch (+ Many Retro Consoles)

'When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called the people's stick'- Mikhail Bakunin

Prediction: Switch will sell better than Wii U Lifetime Sales by Jan 1st 2018

Marks said:
the2real4mafol said:
Marks said:

Geez you people. If you take away guns from citizens that means only police and criminals have guns, is that really what you want? Who will defend your life when an armed robber breaks into your house or place of business? It won't be the police because they're there to arrest the criminal after the fact, not to save your life.

If just one law abiding person in that movie theatre in Colorado was carrying a concealed weapon he could have stopped the "Batman massacre" before it even began. What did the police do besides bag and tag the victims?

So you're telling me you could kill someone? Also, most of the time you can use whatever is at hand to fight a burguler.

where's does the constitution define the line between murder and lawful gun ownership?


Yeah I could kill someone if he broke into my home or business. I can't just ask him politely to leave if he has a gun. Of course I'd first give him the chance to drop his gun (if I had one as well pointed at him), I wouldn't just shoot first...but I value my life and my family's life more than that of a killer.

And yeah of course you could try using what's at hand, but a kitchen knife or baseball bat really won't do much against a burglar who has a gun that he got on the black market regardless of any and all gun control measures.

Of course I would love to see a world without guns, but that isn't realistic. 

Just like global peace, it won't happen then :(



Xbox One, PS4 and Switch (+ Many Retro Consoles)

'When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called the people's stick'- Mikhail Bakunin

Prediction: Switch will sell better than Wii U Lifetime Sales by Jan 1st 2018