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Forums - Politics Discussion - Time for gun law reforms in the USA?

the_dengle on 07 August 2012
Kasz216 said:

Let people use it.

Heroin legalized would be incredibly cheap...

I fail to see how legalizing heroin would somehow result in fewer people being addicted to it. There is literally nothing you can tell or show me that would overcome my common sense laughing at how ridiculous it is to assume that making something legal and cheap would NOT result in its use becoming more widespread, no matter WHAT it is.

"The costs aren't exactly dissuading anyone from doing it?" You're nuts. Maybe people who are already addicted are willing to do whatever it takes to get their hands on it, but people who AREN'T addicted are way less likely to try something new if it's outrageously expensive. Come on, man! Seriously, don't argue with common sense!

We are getting so far off-topic here. GUN CONTROL. GET ON THAT.



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NobleTeam360 on 07 August 2012

The only person in this thread who knows what they are talking about is Happy Squirrel. They did the same thing with alcohol how did that end? Failure they did the same thing with drugs how is that going right now? Failure. they are doing the same thing with illegal immigration how did that go? Failure. And now you want to attempt the same measures on Guns ok lets see how that goes.



the2real4mafol on 07 August 2012
NobleTeam360 said:
The only person in this thread who knows what they are talking about is Happy Squirrel. They did the same thing with alcohol how did that end? Failure they did the same thing with drugs how is that going right now? Failure. they are doing the same thing with illegal immigration how did that go? Failure. And now you want to attempt the same measures on Guns ok lets see how that goes.

whoa! i never said guns should be banned completetly!, i said they shouldn't so easy to get in America that's all. And you mentioned the war on drugs and illegal immigration, as examples to not restrict gun ownership, they're great ways to prove me wrong! But if they both failed, why don't Barack Obama get off his arse and end both, if they fail so bad. That's the problem, the polictians over there don't have common sense, i don't see MItt Romney or Barack Obama or Ron Paul wanting to change that, only Gary Johnson and the LIbertarians but what chance do they have?

 maybe i was wrong that restricting guns was right, but i'm European, so i would think it's right! That's the law that i know, so i'm used. I guess like anywhere, America can be pretty safe. The UK had riots last year and gets a few stabbings every now and then, but i normally feel safe. The media don't help how you see though. 

Fuck it, the only thing that will happen is it will stay the same, that's how it is. Maybe George Washington knew best for his country. 



Xbox One, PS4 and Switch (+ Many Retro Consoles)

'When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called the people's stick'- Mikhail Bakunin

Prediction: Switch will sell better than Wii U Lifetime Sales by Jan 1st 2018

the2real4mafol on 07 August 2012
HappySqurriel said:
the2real4mafol said:
HappySqurriel said:
the2real4mafol said:

i may have north korea's kim il sung as my avatar but that don't mean i want to live there, i'm happy in Britain. i'm a socialist NOT a communist (like America thinks, they are not the same thing). I believe that the greed of a few shouldn't affect the rest of us, it wasn't our fault they fucked up, is it? of course, it does anyway. Government should be there to help the neediest and offer basic services like healthcare and a good education, they definitely SHOULD not repress their people, that's what i hated about North korea and the former USSR. Capitalism is all good when everything goes well and everyone lives a decent lifestyle and has a job, but since the recession 5 years ago, so many people have lost what they had, it's just not right, it leads to higher crime and higher suicide, because money is everything. Your right, capitalism isn't bad but its not perfect either, as the few lucky people to make up to the top, fucked it because they got greedy. I mean to show how capitalism is flawed, lets compare figures, the US (a developed economy) poverty line is 15.7% of the population, with China (a developing economy) at 13.4%. Surely something is wrong there, the USA should have less poverty shouldn't it, if the American lifestyle is so much better than the Chinese

The problem is that you have to give the state power in order to "help" people, those that hold this power eventually become corrupt, and then this power is used or sold to benefit the individuals who hold the power ... This means that the more socialist a nation becomes the more it will turn into a communist or corporatist state.

Corporatism, not capitalism, was the cause of the economic crisis; adding more power to a government that is already a corporatist state will only result in large corporations having more power at the expense of individuals.

America's government is supposedly minimal and they, like the greed and power of money over the last 60 years has corrupted them, since both parties are the same anyway. While, in Europe that never happened, as the parties were distinquishable . The UK had several socialist Labour government and didn't corrupt, forming the NHS didn't corrupt us, nor did the other stuff Clement Atlee did. Governments gain power from the time they serve, not anything to do with socialism. we'll see how France ends up in 2017, when they hold a new election, we'll see if socialism helped sort out there problems. Socialism is about EQUALITY above anything, the government may be bigger, but it's to regulate not control

The United States government spending is 40% of GDP, in what way could that ever be seen as minimal?

Beyond that, how has the UK not been corrupted? Wasn't Barclays International just given an insignificant fine compared to the profits it generated through Libor manipulation? Didn't the UK spend over £1 trillion bailing out big banks? The UK is as much of a corportist state and the United States is ...

As for the rest of Europe, depending on how the Eurozone crisis resolves itself, I wouldn't be surprised to see many of the bankrupt nations move towards communism; while many of the stronger nations will become far more corportist.

Sorry i didn't know that, i just though they were small government, they talk like they are

Yeah Barclays fixed their interest rates and got caught, all their got was a small fine and earful from my government. They should be all sacked, new people should of been hired. We bailed out Northern Rock and some other banks in 2008/9. i guess so. That phrase is news to me though, something to do with corporations running government?

The US has been run by Wall St the richer it got, the bush tax cuts made it worse though

Well, Russia will most likely go back communist, the people they hate "tsar" putin plus communism is still big there. France, Germany and Britain will stay democratic probably, unless the economy went really bad. Countries like Spain, Italy, Ireland and Portugal it's hard to tell. While, Greece could go to Fascism or Communism both got 15 seats each out of 300 in the recent election. The EU's fucked eitherway, that's what greed does anyway



Xbox One, PS4 and Switch (+ Many Retro Consoles)

'When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called the people's stick'- Mikhail Bakunin

Prediction: Switch will sell better than Wii U Lifetime Sales by Jan 1st 2018

the2real4mafol on 07 August 2012
SamuelRSmith said:
the2real4mafol said:
chapset said:
Lyrikalstylez said:
check out how great it has been over here in chicago since guns have been bann'd, only 500+ murders a year :-|

if anything this shows more people need to carry weapons

gun laws don't work in Chicago because you can go to the next state or even city and buy your weapons legally to do your dirt, just like the mexican Cartels come to the US to buy their weapons.

yeah if that applied nationwide, it would probably drop to 50 murders or less a year


Funny, when the UK banned handguns, murder rates didn't go down:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/1440764.stm - Handgun crime up, despite ban.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1223193/Culture-violence-Gun-crime-goes-89-decade.html - Gun crime up 89% over a decade.

It is true that crime has decreased a little over the past couple of years... you'd be twisting it a bit to suggest this had anything to do with the ban. Especially when many of the years before the decrease (that is, over the next 10 years after the ban) crime levels were at the highest levels ever recorded.

Also, just look at the USA. Look at the states and cities which have fantastic gun rights, and compare them to those that have gun bans.

I guess being as liberal minded as possible sorts out problems. Repression causes the opposite.

Although, i live in London (the Capital City), i've hardly heard of shootings, stabbings are more common in the city



Xbox One, PS4 and Switch (+ Many Retro Consoles)

'When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called the people's stick'- Mikhail Bakunin

Prediction: Switch will sell better than Wii U Lifetime Sales by Jan 1st 2018

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Kasz216 on 07 August 2012
the_dengle said:
Kasz216 said:

Let people use it.

Heroin legalized would be incredibly cheap...

I fail to see how legalizing heroin would somehow result in fewer people being addicted to it. There is literally nothing you can tell or show me that would overcome my common sense laughing at how ridiculous it is to assume that making something legal and cheap would NOT result in its use becoming more widespread, no matter WHAT it is.

"The costs aren't exactly dissuading anyone from doing it?" You're nuts. Maybe people who are already addicted are willing to do whatever it takes to get their hands on it, but people who AREN'T addicted are way less likely to try something new if it's outrageously expensive. Come on, man! Seriously, don't argue with common sense!

We are getting so far off-topic here. GUN CONTROL. GET ON THAT.

Fewer people wouldn't be doing it.  However fewer people would be made destitute about it.

The problem with "common sense" is that common sense isn't statistically tested and often flies in the face of reality and research.

Gun Control... is exactly the same thing.  Statisics generally show that in the US, removal of gun control, even by outside forces, tends to lead to a decrease in crimes and crimes comitted involving guns.

I'm not sure how you really have a topic after doing the research... outside calls for "common sense".

If you read statistical studies, or books on research you'll find that "common sense" is wrong way more often then you would think, and this is generally one of the biggest issues in the way of policy improvement.



the2real4mafol on 07 August 2012
Kasz216 said:
the_dengle said:
Kasz216 said:

Let people use it.

Heroin legalized would be incredibly cheap...

I fail to see how legalizing heroin would somehow result in fewer people being addicted to it. There is literally nothing you can tell or show me that would overcome my common sense laughing at how ridiculous it is to assume that making something legal and cheap would NOT result in its use becoming more widespread, no matter WHAT it is.

"The costs aren't exactly dissuading anyone from doing it?" You're nuts. Maybe people who are already addicted are willing to do whatever it takes to get their hands on it, but people who AREN'T addicted are way less likely to try something new if it's outrageously expensive. Come on, man! Seriously, don't argue with common sense!

We are getting so far off-topic here. GUN CONTROL. GET ON THAT.

Fewer people wouldn't be doing it.  However fewer people would be made destitute about it.

The problem with "common sense" is that common sense isn't statistically tested and often flies in the face of reality and research.

Gun Control... is exactly the same thing.  Statisics generally show that in the US, removal of gun control, even by outside forces, tends to lead to a decrease in crimes and crimes comitted involving guns.

I'm not sure how you really have a topic after doing the research... outside calls for "common sense".

If you read statistical studies, or books on research you'll find that "common sense" is wrong way more often then you would think, and this is generally one of the biggest issues in the way of policy improvement.

Why is crime so high in america's cities then? if gun control don't exist?



Xbox One, PS4 and Switch (+ Many Retro Consoles)

'When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called the people's stick'- Mikhail Bakunin

Prediction: Switch will sell better than Wii U Lifetime Sales by Jan 1st 2018

Kasz216 on 07 August 2012
the2real4mafol said:
Kasz216 said:
the_dengle said:
Kasz216 said:

Let people use it.

Heroin legalized would be incredibly cheap...

I fail to see how legalizing heroin would somehow result in fewer people being addicted to it. There is literally nothing you can tell or show me that would overcome my common sense laughing at how ridiculous it is to assume that making something legal and cheap would NOT result in its use becoming more widespread, no matter WHAT it is.

"The costs aren't exactly dissuading anyone from doing it?" You're nuts. Maybe people who are already addicted are willing to do whatever it takes to get their hands on it, but people who AREN'T addicted are way less likely to try something new if it's outrageously expensive. Come on, man! Seriously, don't argue with common sense!

We are getting so far off-topic here. GUN CONTROL. GET ON THAT.

Fewer people wouldn't be doing it.  However fewer people would be made destitute about it.

The problem with "common sense" is that common sense isn't statistically tested and often flies in the face of reality and research.

Gun Control... is exactly the same thing.  Statisics generally show that in the US, removal of gun control, even by outside forces, tends to lead to a decrease in crimes and crimes comitted involving guns.

I'm not sure how you really have a topic after doing the research... outside calls for "common sense".

If you read statistical studies, or books on research you'll find that "common sense" is wrong way more often then you would think, and this is generally one of the biggest issues in the way of policy improvement.

Why is crime so high in america's cities then? if gun control don't exist?

Gun control does exist in most of the US cities with high crime rates... and it usually goes down when the court strikes down handgun bans.

Outside that, I could go into a huge primer on why crime is so high in US cities, but I don't want to be accused of going off topic again.  Short answer,  culture, isolation due to suburuban sprawl, certain areas being passed over by mass transportation, drugs being so expensive and cops ignoring/paying less attention to some trouble areas are some reasons.

 

Oh, and in general, less trained officers being in the trouble neigherhoods causing ill will.  Most police departments work on seniority, so the people in the worst areas are often the people who just started.



Mr Khan on 07 August 2012
Kasz216 said:
the_dengle said:
Kasz216 said:

Let people use it.

Heroin legalized would be incredibly cheap...

I fail to see how legalizing heroin would somehow result in fewer people being addicted to it. There is literally nothing you can tell or show me that would overcome my common sense laughing at how ridiculous it is to assume that making something legal and cheap would NOT result in its use becoming more widespread, no matter WHAT it is.

"The costs aren't exactly dissuading anyone from doing it?" You're nuts. Maybe people who are already addicted are willing to do whatever it takes to get their hands on it, but people who AREN'T addicted are way less likely to try something new if it's outrageously expensive. Come on, man! Seriously, don't argue with common sense!

We are getting so far off-topic here. GUN CONTROL. GET ON THAT.

Fewer people wouldn't be doing it.  However fewer people would be made destitute about it.

The problem with "common sense" is that common sense isn't statistically tested and often flies in the face of reality and research.

Gun Control... is exactly the same thing.  Statisics generally show that in the US, removal of gun control, even by outside forces, tends to lead to a decrease in crimes and crimes comitted involving guns.

I'm not sure how you really have a topic after doing the research... outside calls for "common sense".

If you read statistical studies, or books on research you'll find that "common sense" is wrong way more often then you would think, and this is generally one of the biggest issues in the way of policy improvement.

The key is if you have a drug that's completely addictive and will definitely fuck you up, in a more immediate and damning way than alcohol, it only makes sense to do as much as possible to keep it out of as many hands as possible. I wouldn't say that the part of the War on Drugs that treats all users as criminals is a good idea, but it is a good idea to make everyone involved with the drug answerable to some sort of legal action (in an ideal world, enforced rehab for addicts), but it would be a dereliction of duty to simply let this thing go unchecked.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

the2real4mafol on 07 August 2012
Kasz216 said:
the2real4mafol said:
Kasz216 said:
the_dengle said:
Kasz216 said:

Let people use it.

Heroin legalized would be incredibly cheap...

I fail to see how legalizing heroin would somehow result in fewer people being addicted to it. There is literally nothing you can tell or show me that would overcome my common sense laughing at how ridiculous it is to assume that making something legal and cheap would NOT result in its use becoming more widespread, no matter WHAT it is.

"The costs aren't exactly dissuading anyone from doing it?" You're nuts. Maybe people who are already addicted are willing to do whatever it takes to get their hands on it, but people who AREN'T addicted are way less likely to try something new if it's outrageously expensive. Come on, man! Seriously, don't argue with common sense!

We are getting so far off-topic here. GUN CONTROL. GET ON THAT.

Fewer people wouldn't be doing it.  However fewer people would be made destitute about it.

The problem with "common sense" is that common sense isn't statistically tested and often flies in the face of reality and research.

Gun Control... is exactly the same thing.  Statisics generally show that in the US, removal of gun control, even by outside forces, tends to lead to a decrease in crimes and crimes comitted involving guns.

I'm not sure how you really have a topic after doing the research... outside calls for "common sense".

If you read statistical studies, or books on research you'll find that "common sense" is wrong way more often then you would think, and this is generally one of the biggest issues in the way of policy improvement.

Why is crime so high in america's cities then? if gun control don't exist?

Gun control does exist in most of the US cities with high crime rates... and it usually goes down when the court strikes down handgun bans.

Outside that, I could go into a huge primer on why crime is so high in US cities, but I don't want to be accused of going off topic again.  Short answer,  culture, isolation due to suburuban sprawl, certain areas being passed over by mass transportation, drugs being so expensive and cops ignoring/paying less attention to some trouble areas are some reasons.

 

Oh, and in general, less trained officers being in the trouble neigherhoods causing ill will.  Most police departments work on seniority, so the people in the worst areas are often the people who just started.

lots of problems then with the guns somehow getting involved, racism between groups in those areas probably didn't help either. Also, that police system seems flawed, shouldn't the senior police work in the dodgier areas instead of the newer police. it's all ignored really



Xbox One, PS4 and Switch (+ Many Retro Consoles)

'When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called the people's stick'- Mikhail Bakunin

Prediction: Switch will sell better than Wii U Lifetime Sales by Jan 1st 2018