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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Most technically advanced game on Wii?

retroking1981 said:
From a purely graphical stand point i'm gonna go with that Dead Space game or RE: Darkside chronicles, I guess them being on rails means the console can put more effort into the graphics?

I might have to check out Last Story as a lot of you seem impressed by that.

Also one quick question. Why the hell do so many Wii games have horrific jaggies? The worst offenders in my collection are No More Heroes and Metroid Other M. Hell didin't the N64 use anti-aliasing technology all the way back in 1996? Wtf happened? Did Nintendo forget to put it in the Wii?

That's probably because the LCD TV's and monitors suck at displaying anything that doesn't have the same resolution as the native resolution of the screen. Try playing with a PS2 in the same TV, it will look bad too.

Another reason is that we have seen games that look better than Wii games. However N64 games had the best graphics at its time.



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Sonic Colors, Super Mario Galaxy 2, Zelda Skyward Sword



lilbroex said:

I specified the difference between such things, once again, in the post at the top of the page.


This is your explanation?

There is nothing about a game being on a guided path that allows anymore resources to be invested into graphics than if you had simply made a FPS.

If that is indeed the extent of your technical explanation then I can now understand your diversion.   Because you don't have a technical explanation.

 

By the way, "guided expereince" is just marketing speak for on rails.  It's to make their game seem MORE than just an on rails game so consumers won't feel like a moron for buying another game in a suddenly crowded genre.  Can't believe you are even using that term.



The rEVOLution is not being televised

Player2 said:
retroking1981 said:
From a purely graphical stand point i'm gonna go with that Dead Space game or RE: Darkside chronicles, I guess them being on rails means the console can put more effort into the graphics?

I might have to check out Last Story as a lot of you seem impressed by that.

Also one quick question. Why the hell do so many Wii games have horrific jaggies? The worst offenders in my collection are No More Heroes and Metroid Other M. Hell didin't the N64 use anti-aliasing technology all the way back in 1996? Wtf happened? Did Nintendo forget to put it in the Wii?

That's probably because the LCD TV's and monitors suck at displaying anything that doesn't have the same resolution as the native resolution of the screen. Try playing with a PS2 in the same TV, it will look bad too.

Another reason is that we have seen games that look better than Wii games. However N64 games had the best graphics at its time.

1. Thats a good point but unfortunately I sold my GC/XBOX/PS2 for the next gen as they were backward compatible. I did however play some PS2/XBOX games on PS3/360 and they dont suffer this problem. Do they do that good a job of upscaling the old games? Also on the flip side does that mean No More Heroes wouldn't have jaggies on a CRT TV?

2. I understand your point here but that doesn't change the fact that N64 used anti-aliasing and the Wii (on some games at least) doesn't.

Sorry to go on about this but I do find this issue very frustrating especially seeing as its not noticable in images on the net and in mags. My jaw dropped when I saw how bad No More Heroes looked when I first booted it up.



retroking1981 said:
Player2 said:
retroking1981 said:
From a purely graphical stand point i'm gonna go with that Dead Space game or RE: Darkside chronicles, I guess them being on rails means the console can put more effort into the graphics?

I might have to check out Last Story as a lot of you seem impressed by that.

Also one quick question. Why the hell do so many Wii games have horrific jaggies? The worst offenders in my collection are No More Heroes and Metroid Other M. Hell didin't the N64 use anti-aliasing technology all the way back in 1996? Wtf happened? Did Nintendo forget to put it in the Wii?

That's probably because the LCD TV's and monitors suck at displaying anything that doesn't have the same resolution as the native resolution of the screen. Try playing with a PS2 in the same TV, it will look bad too.

Another reason is that we have seen games that look better than Wii games. However N64 games had the best graphics at its time.

1. Thats a good point but unfortunately I sold my GC/XBOX/PS2 for the next gen as they were backward compatible. I did however play some PS2/XBOX games on PS3/360 and they dont suffer this problem. Do they do that good a job of upscaling the old games? Also on the flip side does that mean No More Heroes wouldn't have jaggies on a CRT TV?

2. I understand your point here but that doesn't change the fact that N64 used anti-aliasing and the Wii (on some games at least) doesn't.

Sorry to go on about this but I do find this issue very frustrating especially seeing as its not noticable in images on the net and in mags. My jaw dropped when I saw how bad No More Heroes looked when I first booted it up.

The problem is a game, resolution and CRT/LCD issue less so than a console issue.



The rEVOLution is not being televised

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retroking1981 said:
Player2 said:
retroking1981 said:
From a purely graphical stand point i'm gonna go with that Dead Space game or RE: Darkside chronicles, I guess them being on rails means the console can put more effort into the graphics?

I might have to check out Last Story as a lot of you seem impressed by that.

Also one quick question. Why the hell do so many Wii games have horrific jaggies? The worst offenders in my collection are No More Heroes and Metroid Other M. Hell didin't the N64 use anti-aliasing technology all the way back in 1996? Wtf happened? Did Nintendo forget to put it in the Wii?

That's probably because the LCD TV's and monitors suck at displaying anything that doesn't have the same resolution as the native resolution of the screen. Try playing with a PS2 in the same TV, it will look bad too.

Another reason is that we have seen games that look better than Wii games. However N64 games had the best graphics at its time.

1. Thats a good point but unfortunately I sold my GC/XBOX/PS2 for the next gen as they were backward compatible. I did however play some PS2/XBOX games on PS3/360 and they dont suffer this problem. Do they do that good a job of upscaling the old games? Also on the flip side does that mean No More Heroes wouldn't have jaggies on a CRT TV?

2. I understand your point here but that doesn't change the fact that N64 used anti-aliasing and the Wii (on some games at least) doesn't.

Sorry to go on about this but I do find this issue very frustrating especially seeing as its not noticable in images on the net and in mags. My jaw dropped when I saw how bad No More Heroes looked when I first booted it up.


The Wii DOES have anti-aliasing, but developers often choose to turn it off in order to free up more processing power for other things.



curl-6 said:
retroking1981 said:

1. Thats a good point but unfortunately I sold my GC/XBOX/PS2 for the next gen as they were backward compatible. I did however play some PS2/XBOX games on PS3/360 and they dont suffer this problem. Do they do that good a job of upscaling the old games? Also on the flip side does that mean No More Heroes wouldn't have jaggies on a CRT TV?

2. I understand your point here but that doesn't change the fact that N64 used anti-aliasing and the Wii (on some games at least) doesn't.

Sorry to go on about this but I do find this issue very frustrating especially seeing as its not noticable in images on the net and in mags. My jaw dropped when I saw how bad No More Heroes looked when I first booted it up.


The Wii DOES have anti-aliasing, but developers often choose to turn it off in order to free up more processing power for other things.

This is kind of true though the way anti-aliasing works on the Wii is that it has to be manually programmed just like advanced texture effects. Most devs do not have the knowledge or skill to do so even though documentation on how to do it is freely available...

The aliasing in Wii games was more an issue of dev laziness and cheapness. The Wii can produce every texture effect that the PS3 and 360 can assuming the dev knows how to program TEV properly.  The fact is that most devs only know how to use game engines that simplified everything for them. The Wii had few of those and most of them were far from optimal.

The best I saw was the Lair engine followed by the Mario Galaxy Engine, then the Unleashed Engine that was used in Sonic Colors and the Quatum 3 engine. Most of these were proprietery, however, so they were of no benefit to other devs.

 



lilbroex said:
curl-6 said:
retroking1981 said:

1. Thats a good point but unfortunately I sold my GC/XBOX/PS2 for the next gen as they were backward compatible. I did however play some PS2/XBOX games on PS3/360 and they dont suffer this problem. Do they do that good a job of upscaling the old games? Also on the flip side does that mean No More Heroes wouldn't have jaggies on a CRT TV?

2. I understand your point here but that doesn't change the fact that N64 used anti-aliasing and the Wii (on some games at least) doesn't.

Sorry to go on about this but I do find this issue very frustrating especially seeing as its not noticable in images on the net and in mags. My jaw dropped when I saw how bad No More Heroes looked when I first booted it up.


The Wii DOES have anti-aliasing, but developers often choose to turn it off in order to free up more processing power for other things.

This is kind of true though the way anti-aliasing works on the Wii is that it has to be manually programmed just like advanced texture effects. Most devs do not have the knowledge or skill to do so even though documentation on how to do it is freely available...

The aliasing in Wii games was more an issue of dev laziness and cheapness. The Wii can produce every texture effect that the PS3 and 360 can assuming the dev knows how to program TEV properly.  The fact is that most devs only know how to use game engines that simplified everything for them. The Wii had few of those and most of them were far from optimal.

The best I saw was the Lair engine followed by the Mario Galaxy Engine, then the Unleashed Engine that was used in Sonic Colors and the Quatum 3 engine. Most of these were proprietery, however, so they were of no benefit to other devs.

 

One of the devs of Conduit 2 who used to post on gamefaqs told me that the game didn't use AA because it would be too much of a performance hit with so many effects already running.

I'm pretty sure Red Steel 2, FAST Racing League, and Monster Hunter Tri use AA though, they're the least jaggy 3D Wii games I can think of.



curl-6 said:
lilbroex said:
curl-6 said:
retroking1981 said:

1. Thats a good point but unfortunately I sold my GC/XBOX/PS2 for the next gen as they were backward compatible. I did however play some PS2/XBOX games on PS3/360 and they dont suffer this problem. Do they do that good a job of upscaling the old games? Also on the flip side does that mean No More Heroes wouldn't have jaggies on a CRT TV?

2. I understand your point here but that doesn't change the fact that N64 used anti-aliasing and the Wii (on some games at least) doesn't.

Sorry to go on about this but I do find this issue very frustrating especially seeing as its not noticable in images on the net and in mags. My jaw dropped when I saw how bad No More Heroes looked when I first booted it up.


The Wii DOES have anti-aliasing, but developers often choose to turn it off in order to free up more processing power for other things.

This is kind of true though the way anti-aliasing works on the Wii is that it has to be manually programmed just like advanced texture effects. Most devs do not have the knowledge or skill to do so even though documentation on how to do it is freely available...

The aliasing in Wii games was more an issue of dev laziness and cheapness. The Wii can produce every texture effect that the PS3 and 360 can assuming the dev knows how to program TEV properly.  The fact is that most devs only know how to use game engines that simplified everything for them. The Wii had few of those and most of them were far from optimal.

The best I saw was the Lair engine followed by the Mario Galaxy Engine, then the Unleashed Engine that was used in Sonic Colors and the Quatum 3 engine. Most of these were proprietery, however, so they were of no benefit to other devs.

 

One of the devs of Conduit 2 who used to post on gamefaqs told me that the game didn't use AA because it would be too much of a performance hit with so many effects already running.

I'm pretty sure Red Steel 2, FAST Racing League, and Monster Hunter Tri use AA though, they're the least jaggy 3D Wii games I can think of.


There was that too. If I rememver corectly, the fill rate gets cut in half if you use AA or something like that and it needs to use a TEV unit. Though, it also depends on the quality of the textures being used in the games.

I believe that higher res textures produce less AA. It may be the other way around though. I can't remember.

 

Another fact is that the Wii is an HD system. It could run games at HD but it would take a huge performance hit. You would only be able to use like 1/8 of the assets you could normaly at HD resolutions if you wanted to achieve 30 FPS at 1080p. That and Nintendo had the HD capabilities firmware locked. They could remove them with an update but that obviously won't happen.



retroking1981 said:
Player2 said:
retroking1981 said:
From a purely graphical stand point i'm gonna go with that Dead Space game or RE: Darkside chronicles, I guess them being on rails means the console can put more effort into the graphics?

I might have to check out Last Story as a lot of you seem impressed by that.

Also one quick question. Why the hell do so many Wii games have horrific jaggies? The worst offenders in my collection are No More Heroes and Metroid Other M. Hell didin't the N64 use anti-aliasing technology all the way back in 1996? Wtf happened? Did Nintendo forget to put it in the Wii?

That's probably because the LCD TV's and monitors suck at displaying anything that doesn't have the same resolution as the native resolution of the screen. Try playing with a PS2 in the same TV, it will look bad too.

Another reason is that we have seen games that look better than Wii games. However N64 games had the best graphics at its time.

1. Thats a good point but unfortunately I sold my GC/XBOX/PS2 for the next gen as they were backward compatible. I did however play some PS2/XBOX games on PS3/360 and they dont suffer this problem. Do they do that good a job of upscaling the old games? Also on the flip side does that mean No More Heroes wouldn't have jaggies on a CRT TV?

2. I understand your point here but that doesn't change the fact that N64 used anti-aliasing and the Wii (on some games at least) doesn't.

Sorry to go on about this but I do find this issue very frustrating especially seeing as its not noticable in images on the net and in mags. My jaw dropped when I saw how bad No More Heroes looked when I first booted it up.

PS3/360 upscale the games by itselves so the TV doesn't have have to do it. That improves things.

HDMI and HD component cable improves things as well. I connected my cousin's X360 with an SCART cable and I couldn't believe how bad Fifa Soccer looked. Then I used a HD component cable (still at 480i) and the game looked much better.

The original Xbox was an HD console, XBOX games can't be used to do a fair comparison.

Sony have improved the quality of the backwards compatibility of PS3 since the beginning of the gen (old video before 1.5 firmware update):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoCD9TwLrVs

I have a PS2 connected to a CRT and the games have jaggies. They are highly noticeable in the wings you can buy for your cars in GT4, for example. In 480i jaggies are always noticeable.

Remember that the Wii is backwards compatible. It can do what the GC (which had anti-aliasing) was able to do and more.

If only some games have the problem, then it is a devs thing. Most third parties don't put much effort in Wii games.