By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Politics Discussion - Chik-Fil-A Gay Fallout

bouzane said:
happydolphin said:
To me a lot of this seems like opportunism. An opportunity to bash the christian view. It's one thing to disagree, another to step on people's rights and freedom to believe in their own morals.

I'm starting to hate this democracy.

But before I get really irritated, can someone bring up the facts I've read through the article and all I've found are claims but no quotes...


Show me where Christ condemned same-sex marriage or any aspect of homosexuality. Show me where he ever said anything that contradicted "treat thy neighbor as you would treat thyself". Stop calling the opposition to same-sex marriage Christian, it is inherently anti-Christian. Here are a couple fun facts about marriage. It's not a Christian institution, it's not even a religious one (so why is it that a group of Christians get to define it?). Traditional marriage didn't allow interracial marriage, was that really worth defending? Traditionally marriage treated the woman as property and wedlock was merely the exchange of goods to ensure exclusive sexual access to the newly acquired property. Are we not supposed to advance as a society?

@bold. When did I...

@underlined. That is a trick request. Christ never condemmed anyone.

"16“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,f that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.g 19This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God.”h"

 

When Christ is confronted by the pharisees with the sin of Mary Magdalene, what does he say? You know it: "Let he who never sinned cast the first stone." But does that mean what Mary did was holy? After showing her grace and mercy ("neither do I condemn you. your sins are forgiven you"), he tells her "go and sin no more", as he should in his responsibility as lord and savior, and leader.

So though Christ condemns none, it does not mean that he does not condemn "any aspect of homosexuality" as you put it. The apostle Paul, the last of the apostles ("7Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.") said of homosexuality that it is a practice that was against the will of God (paraphrased). If you want the verses I can give them to you, but don't ask me to do that. I've already done too much to answer your post that assumed so much about my PoV without asking, while I have many friends here that are of that lifestyle. To whoever's reading this, I do not condemn you. I love you. I'm sorry I have to say what I believe to give an answer...

@italics. How is that in line with anything the bible teaches? Marriage is a concept from our maker, as said in the book of genesis "What God has united let not man separate", and God intended marriage as a source of joy and companionship for Adam. ("It is not good for man to be alone, let us make him a helper, or read partner/companion", paraphrased). Jesus said that God allowed the jews to divorce via the Mosaic law due to the harness of their hearts (e.g. their rebellious and stubborn heart, unwilling to submit to the will of God). So God gave them the desires of their hearts. But He didn't want that, he wanted marriage and faithfulness. Jesus considered divorce and the exchange of partners adultery (in most cases), and did not want that. He wanted marriage, and union in all aspects for two people who loved each other.

To me marriage in the right and holy practice (ie love, faithfulness and courage) is progress. So is family, and everything it stands for. It's what I believe in.

@Interracial marriage. There are many cases of it in the bible, and some are the ancestors of Christ. Namely Ruth, King David's great grandmother, who was a moabitess and not a Jew.

And besides, I was asking for more details, not stating an opinion really, with the exception of when I said, and I paraphrase, that I sensed that there was a current of opportunism and stomping on freedom of faith in this mess, and I still think so until further evidence of the contrary is provided.



Around the Network
Rath said:
@badgenome. Obama's half-arsed position of 'evolving views' (which was political speak for, I think any definite answer will piss somebody off) isn't the same as the position of 'only biblical marriage should be legal and we will donate money to groups who oppose gay marriage'.

I was referring to when he was Mr. Hope and Change and still said shit like this:



TadpoleJackson said:
happydolphin said:
To me a lot of this seems like opportunism. An opportunity to bash the christian view. It's one thing to disagree, another to step on people's rights and freedom to believe in their own morals.

I'm starting to hate this democracy.

But before I get really irritated, can someone bring up the facts I've read through the article and all I've found are claims but no quotes...


http://www.snopes.com/politics/sexuality/chickfila.asp

So under the "TRUE" reads a letter

1) Who wrote that letter, and

2) what in that letter is anti-homosexual??

3) Is what that letter stating true? That opposers derided their no-Sunday policy?? If so, that is certainly anti-christian. It's one thing to disagree, another to deride.



happydolphin said:
bouzane said:
happydolphin said:
To me a lot of this seems like opportunism. An opportunity to bash the christian view. It's one thing to disagree, another to step on people's rights and freedom to believe in their own morals.

I'm starting to hate this democracy.

But before I get really irritated, can someone bring up the facts I've read through the article and all I've found are claims but no quotes...


Show me where Christ condemned same-sex marriage or any aspect of homosexuality. Show me where he ever said anything that contradicted "treat thy neighbor as you would treat thyself". Stop calling the opposition to same-sex marriage Christian, it is inherently anti-Christian. Here are a couple fun facts about marriage. It's not a Christian institution, it's not even a religious one (so why is it that a group of Christians get to define it?). Traditional marriage didn't allow interracial marriage, was that really worth defending? Traditionally marriage treated the woman as property and wedlock was merely the exchange of goods to ensure exclusive sexual access to the newly acquired property. Are we not supposed to advance as a society?

@bold. When did I...

@underlined. That is a trick request. Christ never condemmed anyone.

"16“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,f that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.g 19This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God.”h"

 

When Christ is confronted by the pharisees with the sin of Mary Magdalene, what does he say? You know it: "Let he who never sinned cast the first stone." But does that mean what Mary did was holy? After showing her grace and mercy ("neither do I condemn you. your sins are forgiven you"), he tells her "go and sin no more", as he should in his responsibility as lord and savior, and leader.

So though Christ condemns none, it does not mean that he does not condemn any aspect of homosexuality. The apostle Paul, the last of the apostles ("7Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.") said of homosexuality that it is a practice that was against the will of God (paraphrased). If you want the verses I can give them to you, but don't ask me to do that. I've already done too much to answer your post that assumed so much about my PoV without asking, while I have many friends here that are of that lifestyle. To whoever's reading this, I do not condemn you. I love you. I'm sorry I have to say what I believe to give an answer...

@italics. How is that in line with anything the bible teaches? Marriage is a concept from our maker, as said in the book of genesis "What God has united let not man separate", and God intended marriage as a source of joy and companionship for Adam. ("It is not good for man to be alone, let us make him a helper, or read partner/companion", paraphrased). Jesus said that God allowed the jews to divorce via the Mosaic law due to the harness of their hearts (e.g. their rebellious and stubborn heart, unwilling to submit to the will of God). So God gave them the desires of their hearts.

To me marriage in the right and holy practice (ie love, faithfulness and courage) is progress. So is family, and everything it stands for. It's what I believe in.

@Interracial marriage. There are many cases of it in the bible, and some are the ancestors of Christ. Namely Ruth, King David's great grandmother, who was a moabite and not a Jew.

And anyways, I was asking for more details, not stating an opinion except when I said, and I paraphrase, that I sensed that there was a current of oportunism and stomping on freedom of faith, until further evidence was provided.

 

So, you quote me teachings from Jewish texts that predate the existence of Christ? You quote me a line that states homosexuality is abnormal while making no reference to same-sex marriage? Again, there is no basis for opposing same-sex marriage in the teachings of Christ. Also, It doesn't matter what the Bible claims, marriage was never a religious institution and the Church has no right trying to define it or use it as a political tool. If any religious group could claim the right to define marriage it would be the Jews and three out of four branches of the Jewish faith support same-sex marriage. Again, opposing same-sex marriage has no moral basis, only bigotry and ignorance. As such, there is no "opportunism and stomping on freedom of faith" as there is no foundation for such views in either the Christian or Jewish faiths (with the exception of Ultra-Orthodox Judiasm). Please follow the link I provided, you can learn about the teachings of Christ unadulterated by the Judiasm and Paganism that permeate the "Christian" Bible.



Cueil said:
who cares... I'm anti-special-rights you don't get special rights because you choose to be different


I hope that you're joking. If not, then how is equal treatment "special rights"? Also, if I choose to be gay than you choose to be straight, it's just that simple.



Around the Network
kain_kusanagi said:

This is so stupid. So what if the Chik President stands by his beliefs publicly. From what I understand the company has always been open about it's religious base, even remaining closed on Sundays. If you really hate him for it and don't want to buy his chicken, then don't. I don't watch Woody Allen or Roman Polanski movies because I think they are disgusting human beings, but I'm not going to demand a lawsuit or start some kind of nation wide boycott. One thing is for sure, the government should stay out of it.

like



*Why can't weeee be friends, ...*



 Been away for a bit, but sneaking back in.

Gaming on: PS4, PC, 3DS. Got a Switch! Mainly to play Smash

bouzane said:

So, you quote me teachings from Jewish texts that predate the existence of Christ?

Yes, and? It was in answer to this... "Traditionally marriage treated the woman as property and wedlock was merely the exchange of goods to ensure exclusive sexual access to the newly acquired property. Are we not supposed to advance as a society?"

 You quote me a line that states homosexuality is abnormal while making no reference to same-sex marriage?

I have no idea what you're talking about... the abnormality was about Paul, though not walking with Christ, a man who martyred Christians, was a late apostle. I don't have the time nor the patience to explain this to you. Ultimately what all this means is that biblically speaking his words are divinely inspired as if the words of Christ himself (as they are animated by the same spirit). So since Paul teaches that homosexuality is against the will of God, your question was "Where does Christ condemn any aspect of homosexuality", I provided you with an answer. But I'm closing the door because I fear I will offend some friends and I don't have the patience to go over these basics. Please do your own research on the matter.

 Again, there is no basis for opposing same-sex marriage in the teachings of Christ.

See above.

 Also, It doesn't matter what the Bible claims, marriage was never a religious institution and the Church has no right trying to define it or use it as a political tool.

Who gives you the right to make such a bold claim. The church certainly has a right to define it, as it is their opinion, their belief, their point of view, as much as it is your opinion that marriage can support same-sex relationships. Stop being hypocritical.

 If any religious group could claim the right to define marriage it would be the Jews and three out of four branches of the Jewish faith support same-sex marriage.

Indeed, and they are not following the word of God. Everyone has a right to claim a definition, not all are correct. There is ultimately only 1 true definition, no matter how broad it may be.

 Again, opposing same-sex marriage has no moral basis, only bigotry and ignorance. 

This sentence is plagued with what it condemns. I have stated my views without being neither ignorant nor a bigot. Proof that this claim is false, by counter-example.

As such, there is no "opportunism and stomping on freedom of faith" as there is no foundation for such views in either the Christian or Jewish faiths (with the exception of Ultra-Orthodox Judiasm).

Even if there were no foundation of such a view in the Christian or the Jewish faith, as an individual with a right to my morality and beliefs, there is "opportunism and stomping on freedom of faith". As such, the stomping on freedom of faith is not dependent on any one religion, be it named or not.

 Please follow the link I provided, you can learn about the teachings of Christ unadulterated by the Judiasm and Paganism that permeate the "Christian" Bible.

My above reply explains this. Also, Christ's teaching as is "A man shall leave his father and his ? (mother) and be united with his ? (wife)."

Mosaic: Gen 2: 24.

Jesus: Mark 10:7

Paul the apostle: Ephesians 5:31



happydolphin said:

So under the "TRUE" reads a letter

1) Who wrote that letter, and

2) what in that letter is anti-homosexual??

3) Is what that letter stating true? That opposers derided their no-Sunday policy?? If so, that is certainly anti-christian. It's one thing to disagree, another to deride.

1) I think it was this guy -  http://ajosephproject.com/blog/lets-all-eat-at-chick-fil-a-this-week/ 

2) Nothing

3) Dunno, I just posted the link because it gave a good overview of what happened. I haven't been following this so I'm not sure about the homophobic comments 



TadpoleJackson said:

1) I think it was this guy -  http://ajosephproject.com/blog/lets-all-eat-at-chick-fil-a-this-week/ 

Cool, thanks for helping.

The guy you quoted links to this source article.

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/258646/christian-business-left-s-crosshairs-michelle-malkin


I'm not sure if what it says is true. There is no original statement by the Chick-fil-A guy that I can find...