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Forums - Politics - Chik-Fil-A Gay Fallout

bouzane on 27 July 2012
happydolphin said:
bouzane said:

I wonder if he complained when marriage was redefined the last time. Also, if he honestly believes that altering marriage is a bigger concern for god than racism, poverty, rape and murder then he needs to have his head checked. We have far worse problems that I'm certain would be far more concerning to any possible deity.

Everyone puts their time where their priorities are. The people who push for equality could also invest in feeding dying children in africa.

Stop using double-standards. This person has convictions, it's up to him to support the causes he considers important to him.

I find this argument moot.

To add:

Of course there are more important things in the world, but many people contribute to many different things. Cathy contributes to equality, Dan contributes to the sacredness (in his eyes) of one man one woman marriage. To each their own. Does it mean he doesn't realize the more imporant issues of life? We don't know. For all we know his church may be supporting many altrusitic organizations.

In other words you can't judge a man on the causes he supports because you don't know what community he's a part of and what other causes his community supports.


How about this, he's being judgmental (what would Christ think about this?). Again, why does one group of people, who never defined marriage to begin with, get to rule over all others in a supposedly secular and inclusive society?



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happydolphin on 27 July 2012
bouzane said:

Again, why does one group of people, who never defined marriage to begin with, get to rule over all others in a supposedly secular and inclusive society?

Now we're seeing eye to eye. I know you've been trying to say this, but I've also been trying to get you to say this as it is, not in many other ways that are much more ambiguous or erroneous.

This is the issue, and yes, I'm trying to answer this question myself. I'm not sure atm.

How about this, he's being judgmental (what would Christ think about this?). 

Not sure. I don't know if Christ denounces judgementalism, I think it depends on the context or importance of the issue. For example, Jesus was "judgemental" against the pharisees.

The question is was Jesus right? Yes he was. Is Cathy right, let's look into it. I'm not sure exactly what he's trying to say in his quote.



bouzane on 27 July 2012
happydolphin said:
bouzane said:

Again, why does one group of people, who never defined marriage to begin with, get to rule over all others in a supposedly secular and inclusive society?

Now we're seeing eye to eye. I know you've been trying to say this, but I've also been trying to get you to say this as it is, not in many other ways that are much more ambiguous or erroneous.

This is the issue, and yes, I'm trying to answer this question myself. I'm not sure atm.

How about this, he's being judgmental (what would Christ think about this?). 

Not sure. I don't know if Christ denounces judgementalism, I think it depends on the context or importance of the issue. For example, Jesus was "judgemental" against the pharisees.

The question is was Jesus right? Yes he was. Is Cathy right, let's look into it. I'm not sure exactly what he's trying to say in his quote.


Again, the Christians lose nothing if the government recognizes same-sex marriage so nothing is being done to them, at all. Marriage is not theirs to define and if they so wish they may refuse to marry same-sex couples and have nothing to do with the whole matter. If government judges and Jewish Temples want to provide same-sex marriages then nobody should stop them.



happydolphin on 27 July 2012

@Bouzane, @judgementalism.

The quote from Cathy, part 1:

"we’re inviting God’s judgment on our nation when we shake our fist at him and say we know better than you as to what constitutes a marriage"

This is in reference I would think to Sodom and Gomorrah, nations on which God heaped fire and brimstone for their sexual lawlessness and ungodly lifestyle (read genesis and do not assume I'm necessarily talking about homosexuality).

A similar judgement is called in by Christ. Here it is:

Judgement 1: on the people the disciples bring the gospel to

8 “When you enter a town and are welcomed, eat what is offered to you. 9 Heal the sick who are there and tell them, ‘The kingdom of God has come near to you.’ 10 But when you enter a town and are not welcomed, go into its streets and say, 11 ‘Even the dust of your town we wipe from our feet as a warning to you. Yet be sure of this: The kingdom of God has come near.’ 12 I tell you, it will be more bearable on that day for Sodom than for that town.

Judgement 2: on the unbelief of the people of Israel:

29As the crowds increased, Jesus said, “This is a wicked generation. It asks for a miraculous sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah.30For as Jonah was a sign to the Ninevites, so also will the Son of Man be to this generation. 31The Queen of the South will rise at the judgment with the men of this generation and condemn them; for she came from the ends of the earth to listen to Solomon’s wisdom, and now onei greater than Solomon is here. 32The men of Nineveh will stand up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and now one greater than Jonah is here.

What all this tells us is that Jesus puts unbelief in his name as an even greater offense than the wickedness of Sodom, Gomorrah and Nineveh.

In other words, Cathy is probably focused on secondary matters, as far as Christ is concerned. Would Christ discourage judgementalism? This would hint at not. Would Christ discouraging focus on what is not essential as compared to the supreme importance of unbelief in the grand scheme of evils? Probably yes.



happydolphin on 27 July 2012
bouzane said:

Again, the Christians lose nothing if the government recognizes same-sex marriage so nothing is being done to them, at all. Marriage is not theirs to define and if they so wish they may refuse to marry same-sex couples and have nothing to do with the whole matter. If government judges and Jewish Temples want to provide same-sex marriages then nobody should stop them.

True, but where in the quote does Cathy mention that same-sex marriages should be blocked?

Let's just look at the quote for now and go to his sponsoring organisations we yet no little of later.

Quote first, organisation later.

I'm getting to the bottom of this. ~.-



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badgenome on 27 July 2012
Mr Khan said:

Isn't letting me read unless i sign in.

It's an op-ed by the alderman you cited in the OP that attempts to explain why he feels that it's important to violate civil rights in order to support civil rights. The gist of it was, "Because fuck you, that's why."



happydolphin on 27 July 2012

Badge, is this similar to what you showed?



Alby_da_Wolf on 27 July 2012

Sacrilege! Sacrificing fried chicken for political correctness violates one of the most important human rights!



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Player1x3 on 27 July 2012
bouzane said:
happydolphin said:
bouzane said:

I wonder if he complained when marriage was redefined the last time. Also, if he honestly believes that altering marriage is a bigger concern for god than racism, poverty, rape and murder then he needs to have his head checked. We have far worse problems that I'm certain would be far more concerning to any possible deity.

Everyone puts their time where their priorities are. The people who push for equality could also invest in feeding dying children in africa.

Stop using double-standards. This person has convictions, it's up to him to support the causes he considers important to him.

I find this argument moot.

To add:

Of course there are more important things in the world, but many people contribute to many different things. Cathy contributes to equality, Dan contributes to the sacredness (in his eyes) of one man one woman marriage. To each their own. Does it mean he doesn't realize the more imporant issues of life? We don't know. For all we know his church may be supporting many altrusitic organizations.

In other words you can't judge a man on the causes he supports because you don't know what community he's a part of and what other causes his community supports.


How about this, he's being judgmental (what would Christ think about this?). Again, why does one group of people, who never defined marriage to begin with, get to rule over all others in a supposedly secular and inclusive society?

Democracy is a cunt, i know.

Free speech is also a bitch.



happydolphin on 27 July 2012
badgenome said:
Mr Khan said:

Isn't letting me read unless i sign in.

It's an op-ed by the alderman you cited in the OP that attempts to explain why he feels that it's important to violate civil rights in order to support civil rights. The gist of it was, "Because fuck you, that's why."

:) I signed up and transcripted it.

Pretty funny shit honestly.

Alderman Joe Moreno:

 

The intolerance of an organization and then my lack of acceptance of that intolerance is not hypocrisy, that's so self-amoric.

In thinking it's not about someone having a different view than you, that's not what it's about. What it's about is discriminating against individuals in our society. it's not about believing in a different God, it's not about believing either in Christ or having a different belief.

See they always try to do that, they try to say, 'oh well if we believe in something different... would you do this to a muslim company?" Well if a muslim company, -owned company, was outwardly discriminating against a section and supported policies that discriminated, yes. 

But not just because they're muslim. 90% of the comments and e-mails and phone calls that I've gotten 90+% have been supportive. I think this is healthy, I think that these kinds of issues are not easy. This is a restaurant who's CEO who's practices are against the rights of individuals that live in my ward and I'm not gonna stand on the sidelines and allow that to happen.

 

I don't believe he has the right to behave like this. If he disagrees with Cathy there are other ways to go about it than this. This is just unacceptable. Jim Henson the same. It's discrimination towards Christian beliefs.

In Canada this would not fly I wouldn't think.