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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Wii U CPU Weaker than PS360

darkknightkryta on 12 July 2012
kanageddaamen said:
zarx said:
lilbroex said:

Through the entire gameplay video you can see heavy physics in use. Secondly, all events are scripted in any game, elswise nothing would happen. even a single boulder falling and you rolling it around. That isn't CGI. To run such a thing in real time requires real resources and it wasn't just the roads. They react to your movement as well as the building in the back ground all while managing you characters with their physics and abilities at 60 FPS all with fluid, detailed animation. Nice try, with the attempt at throwing shade over that one scene though.

Third(in case you were unware), even the original Wii could handle strategy amd physics on a high scale.


There is a difference between stuff like the road cracking up due to a script which all games do, AKA baked physics and realtime physics. prebaked uses very little proccessing power and all games use it and there is nothing special about anything I have seen on the Wii U. Saying that Wii games also have physics does nothing to help your case of the Wii U having physics beyond what is on the PS3/360.

There is nothing in P-100 that looks better than games of current gen even for prebaked physics, take this scene from Uncahrted 2 which combines prebaked physics with the building collapsing plus realtime physics for the smaller objects.

 

Meh, looks like your standard box-box collision detection and response with particle embellishments.  This type of stuff has been done for like 15 years, at least.  Really good modern physics involves things like fluid dynamics, randomly destructible objects with accurate collision detection on the newly defined meshes,  accurate deformations based on physical properties,  realistic wave interactions, etc.  I would suggest a better example to make your point then a bunch of boxes flying around…

 

That's not the point he was trying to make, he was saying that P-100's physics is the same kind of physics that Uncharted 2 was doing... which is pre-baked animations.  He was counter-argueing against the statement that the Wii-U is better at physics.



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vaio on 12 July 2012
Figlioni said:
archbrix said:
o_O.Q said:
archbrix said:
o_O.Q said:
...i like how someone gets called a a 12 year old just for stating their opinion

Point taken, and yes, everyone is entitled to their opinion.

But you have to admit that when someone resorts to saying, "P-100 is a crappy cartoony looking game, which looks like an original XBOX game in HD", it makes most of us question the credibility of one's knowledge.  It would be downright impossible for that game - as it currently exists on WiiU - to be on a 6th gen console, even if it somehow ran in the exact same resolution.

I mean, one could say something like, "Uncharted 3 looks like it could have been done on the PS2, ony in HD".  That would be their opinion, but most people (including myself), would not value their opinion much as a knowledgeable source.   

so you think calling him a 12 year old is justifiable?

if he wasn't impressed he wasn't impressed

after watching a couple videos for it myself i wasn't that impressed either, although i wouldn't go as far as calling it xbox level 

I'm not saying I found calling him a 12 year old justifiable - I thought I made that clear?

I'm saying that statements like that make me question if an individual really knows much about the subject matter they're discussing.  Doesn't mean he doesn't have the right to express his opinion... same as myself.


I think it was completely justifiable. On one hand, you have a poster taking his time to explain the technical aspects, what exactly you're seeing, you know, facts. Then you have a fanboy responding with, basically, it sucks! It looks worst!

So yeah, completely justified.


I agree with this, just keep the facts coming and let the hate



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lilbroex on 12 July 2012
darkknightkryta said:
kanageddaamen said:
zarx said:
lilbroex said:

Through the entire gameplay video you can see heavy physics in use. Secondly, all events are scripted in any game, elswise nothing would happen. even a single boulder falling and you rolling it around. That isn't CGI. To run such a thing in real time requires real resources and it wasn't just the roads. They react to your movement as well as the building in the back ground all while managing you characters with their physics and abilities at 60 FPS all with fluid, detailed animation. Nice try, with the attempt at throwing shade over that one scene though.

Third(in case you were unware), even the original Wii could handle strategy amd physics on a high scale.


There is a difference between stuff like the road cracking up due to a script which all games do, AKA baked physics and realtime physics. prebaked uses very little proccessing power and all games use it and there is nothing special about anything I have seen on the Wii U. Saying that Wii games also have physics does nothing to help your case of the Wii U having physics beyond what is on the PS3/360.

There is nothing in P-100 that looks better than games of current gen even for prebaked physics, take this scene from Uncahrted 2 which combines prebaked physics with the building collapsing plus realtime physics for the smaller objects.

 

Meh, looks like your standard box-box collision detection and response with particle embellishments.  This type of stuff has been done for like 15 years, at least.  Really good modern physics involves things like fluid dynamics, randomly destructible objects with accurate collision detection on the newly defined meshes,  accurate deformations based on physical properties,  realistic wave interactions, etc.  I would suggest a better example to make your point then a bunch of boxes flying around…

 

That's not the point he was trying to make, he was saying that P-100's physics is the same kind of physics that Uncharted 2 was doing... which is pre-baked animations.  He was counter-argueing against the statement that the Wii-U is better at physics.

Actually, that was what he was trying to say.

The physics P-100 are not the same as in Uncharted 2 in anyway. They are far more than just a few boxes and pieces of woods sliding around. I countered that very argument with video proof that the regular Wii has produced better physics than was displayed in that gif.



zarx on 12 July 2012
lilbroex said:

You sound just like that dude from yesterday with that "looks better". How appealing you find it makes absolutely no difference. What is being done is what is being done. There is nothing extremely complex going on in that scene from Uncharted, its no where near a fluid, its not over a range that is as large, there are not 20 inidivdual characters on the screen at once with there own phsyics and animation, there are not as many texture effects in use, the lighting isn't a detailed and the textures themselves aren't nearly as high res.

The physics you are showing in Uncharted are simplistic. The Wii has used physics on that level believe or not, in elebits which was an unoptimized release game using early GC based dev kits. The game I showed you in the photo.


I don't think we are talking about the same P-100 because there is nothing that impressive going on in that game. Overlord has hundreds of minions on screen it's not that impressive, hell the Total War games have had thousands of units on screen at the same time since 2004.

P-100 uses basic lighting, basic textures and low pilly models and displays no impressive physics effects, and the minions appear to have blob shadows, it's a simple game. I have no idea where you are seeing anything special in it at all frankly.

Which doesn't look a whole lot better than Lego Star Wars The Clone Wars with it's RTS sections outside of better ground textures and a more colourful artstyle



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zarx on 12 July 2012
kanageddaamen said:

 

Meh, looks like your standard box-box collision detection and response with particle embellishments.  This type of stuff has been done for like 15 years, at least.  Really good modern physics involves things like fluid dynamics, randomly destructible objects with accurate collision detection on the newly defined meshes,  accurate deformations based on physical properties,  realistic wave interactions, etc.  I would suggest a better example to make your point then a bunch of boxes flying around…

 


I didn't say it had amazing physics I was saying they were just as good if not better than anything I have seen from the Wii U. Which he claims has displayed physics beyond that of anything on current consoles. If I wanted to show amazing physics I would have brought out some of the PhysX demoes or something or maybe The Force Unleashed with it's 3 physics engines working together. 



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lilbroex on 12 July 2012
zarx said:
lilbroex said:

You sound just like that dude from yesterday with that "looks better". How appealing you find it makes absolutely no difference. What is being done is what is being done. There is nothing extremely complex going on in that scene from Uncharted, its no where near a fluid, its not over a range that is as large, there are not 20 inidivdual characters on the screen at once with there own phsyics and animation, there are not as many texture effects in use, the lighting isn't a detailed and the textures themselves aren't nearly as high res.

The physics you are showing in Uncharted are simplistic. The Wii has used physics on that level believe or not, in elebits which was an unoptimized release game using early GC based dev kits. The game I showed you in the photo.


I don't think we are talking about the same P-100 because there is nothing that impressive going on in that game. Overlord has hundreds of minions on screen it's not that impressive, hell the Total War games have had thousands of units on screen at the same time since 2004.

P-100 uses basic lighting, basic textures and low pilly models and displays no impressive physics effects, and the minions appear to have blob shadows, it's a simple game. I have no idea where you are seeing anything special in it at all frankly.

Which doesn't look a whole lot better than Lego Star Wars The Clone Wars with it's RTS sections outside of better ground textures and a more colourful artstyle

 

There are two words taht show that you don't know what you are talking about again(looks better). This bluff may have worked with a person who doesn't know what they are talking about but not I.

First off, most effect differences can't be demonstrated by stills. It has to be in motion.

Second, that screen shot you posted is on the same level of Battlion Wars 2 on the Wii and Little King Story, not P-100. Possibly even less than those two. They are all the exact same simplistic modal remapped with the same undetailed texture set. The shadows are one shade. You could do that on the Dreamcast (see 100 Swords)

There are many shades of light and shadow in P-100. All of the character are diverse with a large array of interchangeble euqipment for each individual unit with a diverse array of actions and animations over a large scale. The individual modals are not as detailed either. There are nowhere near as many resource intensive effects going on if any in that game with white soldiers and simple bubble barrier. The enviroment itself is not as detailed as in P-100 nor as diverse. The texture quality is not as high either. They look kind of washed out and grainy.

That game is no more detailed than a standard RTS from 5 years ago. That is miles away from what P-100 is displaying.

With that I am done. You keep ignoring every point I show you jumping to something other area and then failing for the exact same reasons as before. You, just like the guy from before, have no idea how to read graphical facts. All you seem concerned about is what looks prettiest to you.



bouzane on 12 July 2012

zarx: "P-100 uses basic lighting, basic textures and low pilly models and displays no impressive physics effects, and the minions appear to have blob shadows, it's a simple game. I have no idea where you are seeing anything special in it at all frankly."

It's on the correct brand name hardware.

Seriously, I see nothing in P-100 that would indicate that the WiiU has any more processing power than either the PS3 or 360. That being said, I expect the WiiU to have a superior CPU to any current generation hardware.



lilbroex on 12 July 2012
bouzane said:

zarx: "P-100 uses basic lighting, basic textures and low pilly models and displays no impressive physics effects, and the minions appear to have blob shadows, it's a simple game. I have no idea where you are seeing anything special in it at all frankly."

It's on the correct brand name hardware.

Seriously, I see nothing in P-100 that would indicate that the WiiU has any more processing power than either the PS3 or 360. That being said, I expect the WiiU to have a superior CPU to any current generation hardware.


Most people won't either. To them, a light is light and character is a character.

You have to know how hardware works(I'm a programmer) to know the difference.

For most people the cracked ground in FF8 would look the same is the cracked ground in alone in the dark in a still image. What something looks like and what is actually being done behind the scenes are two entirely different things. The cracked ground in FF8 is a static CG picture with boudries mapped to it. The cracked ground in Alone in the Dark is an actual texture and event that happens progressively in real time with actual calculations for the animations.

You can not take P-100 and put it on the PS3 and 360 and it still play. There is too much going on at one time for the those system to run it even if you don't factor in the resolution and frames per second.



zarx on 12 July 2012
lilbroex said:

There are two words taht show that you don't know what you are talking about again(looks better). This bluff may have worked with a person who doesn't know what they are talking about but not I.

First off, most effect differences can't be demonstrated by stills. It has to be in motion.

Second, that screen shot you posted is on the same level of Battlion Wars 2 on the Wii and Little King Story, not P-100. Possibly even less than those two. They are all the exact same simplistic modal remapped with the same undetailed texture set. The shadows are one shade. You could do that on the Dreamcast (see 100 Swords)

There are many shades of light and shadow in P-100. All of the character are diverse with a large array of interchangeble euqipment for each individual unit with a diverse array of actions and animations over a large scale. The individual modals are not as detailed either. There are nowhere near as many resource intensive effects going on if any in that game with white soldiers and simple bubble barrier. The enviroment itself is not as detailed as in P-100 nor as diverse. The texture quality is not as high either. They look kind of washed out and grainy.

That game is no more detailed than a standard RTS from 5 years ago. That is miles away from what P-100 is displaying.

With that I am done. You keep ignoring every point I show you jumping to something other area and then failing for the exact same reasons as before. You, just like the guy from before, have no idea how to read graphical facts. All you seem concerned about is what looks prettiest to you.

I never said it looks anything special I said it looked as good as P-100 exept for ground textures not sure why you had to also say the textures looked like crap as if that was some great obsovation. Tho I have to say in terms of lighting Clone Wars blows P-100 away.

I have seen P-100 in motion and frankly I see nothing special, and you have yet to actually show anything to back up your claims. Because I see nothing technically impressive from the game, tho it does look great aesthetically. You claim it has better texture effects than the best of the PS3 yet all I see are some colorful textures with no great detail, some specular and maybe a bit of bump mapping all things that devs were doing on the Xbox 1.



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Check out my hype threads: Cyberpunk, and The Witcher 3!

lilbroex on 12 July 2012
zarx said:
lilbroex said:

There are two words taht show that you don't know what you are talking about again(looks better). This bluff may have worked with a person who doesn't know what they are talking about but not I.

First off, most effect differences can't be demonstrated by stills. It has to be in motion.

Second, that screen shot you posted is on the same level of Battlion Wars 2 on the Wii and Little King Story, not P-100. Possibly even less than those two. They are all the exact same simplistic modal remapped with the same undetailed texture set. The shadows are one shade. You could do that on the Dreamcast (see 100 Swords)

There are many shades of light and shadow in P-100. All of the character are diverse with a large array of interchangeble euqipment for each individual unit with a diverse array of actions and animations over a large scale. The individual modals are not as detailed either. There are nowhere near as many resource intensive effects going on if any in that game with white soldiers and simple bubble barrier. The enviroment itself is not as detailed as in P-100 nor as diverse. The texture quality is not as high either. They look kind of washed out and grainy.

That game is no more detailed than a standard RTS from 5 years ago. That is miles away from what P-100 is displaying.

With that I am done. You keep ignoring every point I show you jumping to something other area and then failing for the exact same reasons as before. You, just like the guy from before, have no idea how to read graphical facts. All you seem concerned about is what looks prettiest to you.

I never said it looks anything special I said it looked as good as P-100 exept for ground textures not sure why you had to also say the textures looked like crap as if that was some great obsovation. Tho I have to say in terms of lighting Clone Wars blows P-100 away.

I have seen P-100 in motion and frankly I see nothing special, and you have yet to actually show anything to back up your claims. Because I see nothing technically impressive from the game, tho it does look great aesthetically. You claim it has better texture effects than the best of the PS3 yet all I see are some colorful textures with no great detail, some specular and maybe a bit of bump mapping all things that devs were doing on the Xbox 1.

"in terms of lighting Clone Wars blows P-100 away." No, no it does not. Not even close. Once again. The lights and shadows in Clone wars are "all" 1 shade. There are multiple shades in P-100. That alone sput its miles ahead of clone wars.

I've shown you plenty and you have ignored every bit of it. I'm not going to show a single other thing. There is still plenty amongst all of the demonstractions you chose to skp over. If you see no details then you are not looking. You can see the polygon detail on the building and the shading on each windows over large distance. The round enemies, lush enivornment. Not  a single washed out texture in sight.

I didn't see much bump mapping used in P-100 at all. Most of it looks more like normal mapping and a little displacement mapping which are more resource intensive and accurate. That is defnitely bump mapping in clone wars because its easy to see how flat and unfeatured it is.