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Forums - Nintendo - Digital Foundry vs. Wii U at E3!

Shinobi-san on 09 June 2012
ZaneWane said:
spurgeonryan said:
We have all seen The Last of Us. Even an almost Total Nintendo only player like myself. The devs of that game have done some amazing things! The Wii U should be at least a tad bit stronger than the PS3. The question is how much more can visuals put out? Did the wii U have to do anything else? I do not believe so. Gilgamesh put out a Unreal 4 vs. PS3 graphics thread a while back. There was not much difference. Nintendo did not have to win the Graphics and power race because the race ran out of gas itself. Where else is there to go with visuals? It will be fin.

unreal 4 is capable of millions of dynamic particles, real time dynamic lighting, destructible environments,real time reflections,perfect animations and not sure why you compared linear last of us to it either


Theres nothing wrong with the comparison. The last of us has beautiful visuals....so does the UE4 demo.

Im sure the UE5 when it comes out in ten years time or whatever will do even more things than the UE4 does...but if a significant amount of people cant really make out the difference then it doesnt really matter.



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Shinobi-san on 09 June 2012
VetteDude said:
Shinobi-san said:

While i can appreciate the step up in graphical fidelity that demos such as the UE4, squere enix demo, and watch dogs demo show...i also believe that it is becoming increasingly harder to distinguish the difference between current gen graphics and next gen graphics.

Most people can see the major difference between digimon on PS1 compared to shadow of the collosus on PS2 compared to U2 on PS3. But the amount of people that can distinguish the difference between the new tech shown at E3 to say U2, U3 etc. is much less.

And as we continue to advance in graphical fidelity...less people will notice the difference. Not to mention that computing power in its current form will slow down tremendously in the future.

Heres the important part imo: Its not that next gen will show inferior gains to the current gen compared to what we've seen in the past, but it will appear that way to the average joe playing games.


Consoles have caught up to screen tech. TV's and monitors have pitifully low pixel density. Most high end phones ship with 720p screens now, and thats 5" max. The Galaxy Note 2 is rumored to have a 5.5" 1080p screen. 4K TV is not far off, and next gen consoles better have some horsepower. Current high-end desktop GPU's even struggle. VRAM bandwidth is a little too low, and we need more texture units. But the Wii U will fall vastly behind if 4K comes out on schedule.

Dude...people dont even have HD tv's.....4k tv's are far off.



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Shinobi-san on 09 June 2012

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pezus said:
NintendoPie said:
Andrespetmonkey said:

The world in Pikmin isn't very detailed lol

Compare one character model in pikmin to Nathan Drake, or any human NPC for that matter. Much more detail in the humans. And I think it's a little bit of stretch to say Pikmin 3 looks as good as Uncharted 3. 


Lol. Okay APM, there's no convinsing you. I have now learned that. 

But, Do you seriously think I'm that stupid to think that a Pikmin looks As detailed as Nathan Drake? No! Of course not. Seriously, we think differently, that's obvious. No need to act like something I said means nothing, though. It's an opinion. 

Graphics technology is not opinion though. Did you see the Unreal 4 tech demo?

Graphics technology might not be opinion....but how someone perceives it is. Look at some of the guys in this thread...i dont blame them for not seeing the "UBER AWESOME" graphics in all this next gen stuff when shit already looks good.



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NintendoPie on 09 June 2012
pezus said:

Graphics technology is not opinion though. Did you see the Unreal 4 tech demo?


I'm not talking about graphics opinion. I'm talking about the.... ugh.... its hard to explain. XD Did you wee when we were talking about photorealism? That's the types of opinions I'm talking about.



VetteDude on 09 June 2012
Shinobi-san said:
VetteDude said:
Shinobi-san said:

While i can appreciate the step up in graphical fidelity that demos such as the UE4, squere enix demo, and watch dogs demo show...i also believe that it is becoming increasingly harder to distinguish the difference between current gen graphics and next gen graphics.

Most people can see the major difference between digimon on PS1 compared to shadow of the collosus on PS2 compared to U2 on PS3. But the amount of people that can distinguish the difference between the new tech shown at E3 to say U2, U3 etc. is much less.

And as we continue to advance in graphical fidelity...less people will notice the difference. Not to mention that computing power in its current form will slow down tremendously in the future.

Heres the important part imo: Its not that next gen will show inferior gains to the current gen compared to what we've seen in the past, but it will appear that way to the average joe playing games.


Consoles have caught up to screen tech. TV's and monitors have pitifully low pixel density. Most high end phones ship with 720p screens now, and thats 5" max. The Galaxy Note 2 is rumored to have a 5.5" 1080p screen. 4K TV is not far off, and next gen consoles better have some horsepower. Current high-end desktop GPU's even struggle. VRAM bandwidth is a little too low, and we need more texture units. But the Wii U will fall vastly behind if 4K comes out on schedule.

Dude...people dont even have HD tv's.....4k tv's are far off.

Dude. People can buy a 720p TV for $300 if they want, if people don't have HD, that's their choice.

And they are not far off. http://www.mitsubishi-megaview.com/products/model56P-QF65LCU.html

2160p has 4 times the pixel count of 1080p. Crysis 2 at 900p (my monitor resolution) on Medium with DX11 on uses the full 1GB of VRAM my GPU has. Sony, being a TV manufacturer, should be looking to support 4K (like they did 3D on PS3). I also hope Microsoft has enough foresight to be able to pump some serious pixels. Because Nintendo let us down. Can't even do 1080p *shakes head*



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VetteDude on 09 June 2012

If you want to see just how many pixels will need to be pushed, looks here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Digital_video_resolutions_%28VCD_to_4K%29.svg



Shinobi-san on 09 June 2012
pezus said:
Shinobi-san said:
VetteDude said:
Shinobi-san said:

While i can appreciate the step up in graphical fidelity that demos such as the UE4, squere enix demo, and watch dogs demo show...i also believe that it is becoming increasingly harder to distinguish the difference between current gen graphics and next gen graphics.

Most people can see the major difference between digimon on PS1 compared to shadow of the collosus on PS2 compared to U2 on PS3. But the amount of people that can distinguish the difference between the new tech shown at E3 to say U2, U3 etc. is much less.

And as we continue to advance in graphical fidelity...less people will notice the difference. Not to mention that computing power in its current form will slow down tremendously in the future.

Heres the important part imo: Its not that next gen will show inferior gains to the current gen compared to what we've seen in the past, but it will appear that way to the average joe playing games.


Consoles have caught up to screen tech. TV's and monitors have pitifully low pixel density. Most high end phones ship with 720p screens now, and thats 5" max. The Galaxy Note 2 is rumored to have a 5.5" 1080p screen. 4K TV is not far off, and next gen consoles better have some horsepower. Current high-end desktop GPU's even struggle. VRAM bandwidth is a little too low, and we need more texture units. But the Wii U will fall vastly behind if 4K comes out on schedule.

Dude...people dont even have HD tv's.....4k tv's are far off.

Most people have HDTVs by now, don't they? At least in the "developed" countries. I even have 4 in my home.

I only have one :(

But ya i dont think the market is anywhere close to being ready for 4k tvs. Not to mention the content that is needed to go with this step up  in res. Its simply non existant at the moment. I mean HD content has only just become the norm in the last year or two.



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crissindahouse on 09 June 2012
Shinobi-san said:
ZaneWane said:
spurgeonryan said:
We have all seen The Last of Us. Even an almost Total Nintendo only player like myself. The devs of that game have done some amazing things! The Wii U should be at least a tad bit stronger than the PS3. The question is how much more can visuals put out? Did the wii U have to do anything else? I do not believe so. Gilgamesh put out a Unreal 4 vs. PS3 graphics thread a while back. There was not much difference. Nintendo did not have to win the Graphics and power race because the race ran out of gas itself. Where else is there to go with visuals? It will be fin.

unreal 4 is capable of millions of dynamic particles, real time dynamic lighting, destructible environments,real time reflections,perfect animations and not sure why you compared linear last of us to it either


Theres nothing wrong with the comparison. The last of us has beautiful visuals....so does the UE4 demo.

Im sure the UE5 when it comes out in ten years time or whatever will do even more things than the UE4 does...but if a significant amount of people cant really make out the difference then it doesnt really matter.

if people really saw uncharted full size and the unreal 4 engine in full size on the same screen and can't hardly see a difference most have to lie or have to have big problems with their eyes if they said after the jump from uncharted 1 to uncharted 2 "omg this is such a huge jump for graphics unbelievable".  btw almost every uncharted fan said that and it was true. now, with unreal engine 4 which would be a much bigger jump than uncharted 1 to 2, they can't really see a big difference? that makes absolutely no sense.

there are only 2 possibilities. the jump from uncharted 1 to 2 wasn't as big as uncharted fans said (it was, i saw it with my own eyes lol), or they see now a big jump but say they don't see one because they can't buy new tech at release so they try to downplay it.

seriously, how can people see a huge jump from uncharted 1 to 2 but no big jum from uncharted 3 to unreal engine 4 tech demo?

there were people who said uncharted 2 looks like next gen compared to uncharted 1...



lilbroex on 09 June 2012
pezus said:

Graphics technology is not opinion though. Did you see the Unreal 4 tech demo?


I agree, thought it seems impssoble to explain this to some people...


The UE4 was undoubtable a huge jump in grahpical capability. Can't say that for rest though.



Shinobi-san on 09 June 2012
pezus said:
Shinobi-san said:
pezus said:

Most people have HDTVs by now, don't they? At least in the "developed" countries. I even have 4 in my home.

I only have one :(

But ya i dont think the market is anywhere close to being ready for 4k tvs. Not to mention the content that is needed to go with this step  in res. Its simply non existant at the moment. I mean HD content has only just become the norm in the last year or two.

Yeah, I give 4k TVs around 6-8 years before they enter the mainstream market in any meaningful way. So hopefully for next-next-generation of consoles.

I agree.

6-8 years seems pretty far off to me...hell i might be dead by then



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