Jay520 said: binary solo said: Jay520 said: People think it's fair that God FORCED you into this crazy world without invitation? And then FORCED you to abide by his rules? And then when decide you want to leave this world (suicide), he FORCES you to an eternity in hell? No, he doesn't allow you to stop living, even though you have every right to since you never asked to live. He decides to put you through infinite torture for and infinite amount of time. Not to mention he knew how his plan would end since the beginning. That's fair? Sounds like a dictatorship to me. Blame your parents not God. Unless God is your mother / father / both at the same time. It's your parents who decided to make a baby, theoretically in the full knowledge that they were deciding on your behalf to subject you to an eternity of living in one form or another. How dare your parents make that sort of decision for you. Unless you think God controls every decision anyone ever makes (i.e. free will does not exist), in which case you're just a robot with no true consciousness and hence you really don't have to worry about a post-mortem individuality. Without free will our individual consciousness is an illusion. So there's really nothing to worry about. So, with free will it's your parents' fault for beiong horny at the wrong time, not God's. Without free will you don't really have an individual consciousness with which to continue to be self aware after you die. I've never heard of the No free will = No consciousness idea before, I don't know if I agree with that though.

Simple logic my friend. Without free will you are merely a sophisticated automaton who seems to have free will. A very small part in the biggest and most sophisticated RTS game ever created. You are merely an extension of God's (the game maker and game player's) will. Thus when you die your simulated independance merely goes back to it's origin, which is God. Doesn;t matter if you've been good or bad, because you are only a simulation and you've played your predetermined part in the RTS that is life.

I happen to believe in free will, so therefore I don't subscribe to the idea that it's God's fault that you exist, it's your parents' faults.

To answer your response to my first post: Who decides if you're good or bad? No one. Good and bad are intellectual constructs that we use in order to grasp abstract spiritual realities. Your spiritual path is your own to choose. You are responsible for seeking out spiritual truths and rationally deciding whether greed, selfishness, dishonesty and hate (vices); or kindness, generosity, honesty and love (virtues) are spiritually advantageous qualities to possess. If you develop the spiritual virtues in this life then the consequence is "goodness", if you don't develop those virtues and you succumb to vice then the consequence is "badness". Of course everyone is a mix of both, but almost as important as having "good" qualities is the striving and effort you put in to attain the "good" qualities and overcome the "bad" qualities. It's a bit like if you eat you live, if you don't eat you die, is it anyone's fault but your own if you choose not to eat and you die?

People don't like good and bad because it comes off as all sanctimonous and judgemental. So you could use other terms like beneficial and detrimental, or helpful and harmful, or useful and  useless.

I don't think many people attain the level of spiritual development by the end of their lives to become part of the great consciousness immediately. I think the vast majority of us still have work to do after we die to get there, some have a lot more work to do than others, and a few of the most unfortunate individuals possibly don't bring the necessary tools (hint: virtues) with them.

binary solo said: Simple logic my friend. Without free will you are merely a sophisticated automaton who seems to have free will. A very small part in the biggest and most sophisticated RTS game ever created. You are merely an extension of God's (the game maker and game player's) will. Thus when you die your simulated independance merely goes back to it's origin, which is God. Doesn;t matter if you've been good or bad, because you are only a simulation and you've played your predetermined part in the RTS that is life. I happen to believe in free will, so therefore I don't subscribe to the idea that it's God's fault that you exist, it's your parents' faults. To answer your response to my first post: Who decides if you're good or bad? No one. Good and bad are intellectual constructs that we use in order to grasp abstract spiritual realities. Your spiritual path is your own to choose. You are responsible for seeking out spiritual truths and rationally deciding whether greed, selfishness, dishonesty and hate (vices); or kindness, generosity, honesty and love (virtues) are spiritually advantageous qualities to possess. If you develop the spiritual virtues in this life then the consequence is "goodness", if you don't develop those virtues and you succumb to vice then the consequence is "badness". Of course everyone is a mix of both, but almost as important as having "good" qualities is the striving and effort you put in to attain the "good" qualities and overcome the "bad" qualities. It's a bit like if you eat you live, if you don't eat you die, is it anyone's fault but your own if you choose not to eat and you die? People don't like good and bad because it comes off as all sanctimonous and judgemental. So you could use other terms like beneficial and detrimental, or helpful and harmful, or useful and  useless. I don't think many people attain the level of spiritual development by the end of their lives to become part of the great consciousness immediately. I think the vast majority of us still have work to do after we die to get there, some have a lot more work to do than others, and a few of the most unfortunate individuals possibly don't bring the necessary tools (hint: virtues) with them.

Okay, I guess I haven't thought of it like that.

For the record, I don't believe in God or Free Will. This thread was hypothetical for people that believed in God / Free Will.

About who should be blamed. I still think the blame, or at least some of it, can be placed on God. Parents may be the ones who start life. But God is the one who makes life indefinite. Keep in mind that this thread was directed mainly at Christians.

You say you believe in Free Will. I'm curious as to what you think determines a person's personality. The only factors I can think of are Environment Factors & innate traits about yourself (Both of these are uncontrollable). What else could there be to effect a person's personality?

Seek help? ....that's all i could think of.

You've never experience Heaven so to say you'd get bored of it based off you getting bored here on measly Earth is beyond stupid. I just....wow.

You couldn't be able to fathom what Heaven is like. It's beyond the simple grasp of not only YOUR but EVERYONE'S human intellect. 

Jay520 said: KungKras said: I'm an atheist, but I have to say, death is the worst thing that can happen to a conciousness, ever. The moment you die, you might as well have never been born. And it is totally unacceptable. We need to find a way to stop aging, as fast as fucking possible. Think about this way: You were dead for all those years before you were born, it wasn't that bad, was it? You can even imagine that the time before your birth and after your death neven even existed. Because it didn't, from your perspective. If you don't percieve something, why even consider it in your reality? You won't percieve death, therefore death is not apart of reality. You're going to live forever, from your point of view.

That's a neat philosophical viewpoint, but thinking about it practiacally, trying to imagine the time before being born is what makes it so incredibly scary.

The moment I die, the memories of the time I lived will be gone. It is true that the time before and after life shouldn't even be considered in my reality, but when I die, my entire life will not be a part of reality as well. I might as well have never been born.

Gamer_of_the_Year said: Seek help? ....that's all i could think of. You've never experience Heaven so to say you'd get bored of it based off you getting bored here on measly Earth is beyond stupid. I just....wow. You couldn't be able to fathom what Heaven is like. It's beyond the simple grasp of not only YOUR but EVERYONE'S human intellect.

Please excuse my stupidity. I can't help it because of my stupidity.

KungKras said: Jay520 said: KungKras said: I'm an atheist, but I have to say, death is the worst thing that can happen to a conciousness, ever. The moment you die, you might as well have never been born. And it is totally unacceptable. We need to find a way to stop aging, as fast as fucking possible. Think about this way: You were dead for all those years before you were born, it wasn't that bad, was it? You can even imagine that the time before your birth and after your death neven even existed. Because it didn't, from your perspective. If you don't percieve something, why even consider it in your reality? You won't percieve death, therefore death is not apart of reality. You're going to live forever, from your point of view. That's a neat philosophical viewpoint, but thinking about it practiacally, trying to imagine the time before being born is what makes it so incredibly scary. The moment I die, the memories of the time I lived will be gone. It is true that the time before and after life shouldn't even be considered in my reality, but when I die, my entire life will not be a part of reality as well. I might as well have never been born.

That's why you have to force yourself to not think practically. You have to force yourself to believe that there was no time before you were born & there is not time after you die.

Why should you worry about something you won't experience? Something that won't affect you? Should you worry about things that happen in other universes? No, because those universes cannot affect you in any way. It wouldn't matter if there were 1 million other universes or if there were 0. It wouldn't matter because their existence places no impact on our own.

The same applies to people. Your perspective is your universe. The only things that affect you are the things that affect you are the things that affect yor perspect, from your perspective. If you don't percieve something or it's affects, it may as well not exist. Since you didn't percieve anything before life and you won't won't after life. It may as well not exist. So just live in the now, and when you die, I assure you, you will not regret any of it.

Jay520 said: That's why you have to force yourself to not think practically. You have to force yourself to believe that there was no time before you were born & there is not time after you die. Why should you worry about something you won't experience? Something that won't affect you? Should you worry about things that happen in other universes? No, because those universes cannot affect you in any way. It wouldn't matter if there were 1 million other universes or if there were 0. It wouldn't matter because their existence places no impact on our own. The same applies to people. Your perspective is your universe. The only things that affect you are the things that affect you are the things that affect yor perspect, from your perspective. If you don't percieve something or it's affects, it may as well not exist. Since you didn't percieve anything before life and you won't won't after life. It may as well not exist. So just live in the now, and when you die, I assure you, you will not regret any of it.

Well, technically, each incriment of time is actually, it's own universe, or else time wouldn't move and everything would be frozen.  I wouldn't worry about it either.  Doesn't mean I'm not going to enjoy my life.

Also.. wow, I'm surprised by the answers you folks give.  At the end of the day, trust me, the thing you want to do is live your life happily, the way you want to.  I really can't say why, and I know I'm not supposed to say right now.  But, yeah, Jay is right, to an extent.  And, don't worry, you wont pay for anything when it's over.  Something else happens, (which is why suiciding is the worst idea). Just be happy.

Late Side-note:  No longer am I posting just once in a thread, and forgetting about it.

God is stupid

Soriku said: Busted said: For God, humans are such meaningless creatures that he's not even aware of their existence so it's not fair nor unfair just it is. Ehh...maybe in fiction but I don't know how you can even say that with certainty.

If God created something like the universe, it's just over the comprehension of any human being, it has nothing to do with what people imagines, such a complex and deep being that's also almighty would not care for such insignificant creatures. Just think about the size of the universe... no no no, where our tecnology let's us go, the border of the universe that we are able to see, just think what lies beyond that.. i mean we are nothing, i bet that if a God exists and he/she/it created the universe sure has some more important things to do.

Soriku said:   BasilZero said: Its called Personal faith, its just something I believe in personally, I doubt anyone else in the world will agree with me and if there are people who would agree with me, it would probably be so small I could probably count the number of people with my fingers. (Probably said it wrong , hope you understood what I meant in the end xD). p.s. I'm not only going by what the Bible saids about Heaven, that is just one of many examples which isnt really concrete to begin with of how Heaven is like. To me I think heaven is whatever you want it to be at least that is what I can come up with since I am living in this world. Imagination runs wild in this world ;) This sounds kind of delusional...but OK.

His posts have been quite odd/confusing in this thread. -.-"