I have to disagree with your first couple of sentences, Pez.  First, when you say Mario, I'm assuming you're including others from the Mario games as well, since characters like Luigi, Yoshi and Bowser are far more world renowned than anyone in Sony's camp.  

But even disregarding Mario characters and Pokemon characters, I would still say that there are Nintendo characters that are more recognizable than any of Sony's, despite game sales.  Many people outside of gaming still know who Kirby is, and while they may not know his name, many would still recognize Link as "that character from the Zelda games".  These characters have just been around for a long time, had cartoon series, etc.  Whereas many of these same non-gamers wouldn't know what the hell a Kratos or a Nathan Drake are at all, and would only associate a Sweet Tooth with a sugar addiction.

They are not DIRECTLY competing for sales.
A Ps3 owner doesn't have a choice of which to buy. Neither does a Wii owner.

If you got both consoles, then yeah, they are competing for your money. But considering All-Stars is a new game and anyone who was interested in Brawl would have already bought by now.....then no, All-Stars IS NOT competing with Smash Bros Brawl for sales.

You're right Nintendo characters are way more popular than Sony ones.
The thing is that this doesn't matter. All-Stars is first and foremost, aimed at the core Playstation fan. From there word of mouth should spread and the characters in the game should be more recognizable over time even to the casual player.

Personally, I think that Sackboy has a shot at becoming Sony's perennial mascot character simply because he is so lovable.  And as long as Nathan Drake remains active and his games continue to be stellar, I can see great recognition for him over the years as well.

Man, the internet is so disheartening, depressing, and frustrating. Do any of you remember a time when games were about fun, challenge, and community? it was only a generation ago when Smash Brothers Melee came out, and it was getting drunk friends together every night for years! a generation before that it was goldeneye for the N64. Can't people just have FUN and stop whining like little bitches that had their cookie stolen?

Like Torillian said, Nintendo helped create a bunch of different subgenres (most notably the brawlers and kart racers) that plenty of people have tried to emulate. There'd Diddy Kong Racing, Crah Team racing, and Modnation Racers which are all similar to mariokart in their presentation and gameplay, but each had enough to make them unique that they all have their own place in gamers' hearts.

All this talk about Sony losing their way or how this is a ripoff or that people should be ashamed disgusts me. I, like many others, have been BEGGING for a sony-brand brawl styled game, and after many years, we're finally getting one. I was totally super psyched to see it for the first time and everyone I've shown it to has been excited to play it with me...but I come on here to share my excitement and it's nothing but wave after wave of complaints, accusations, and butthurt. The way people are acting, it's like sony made them pay just to have a cactus shoved up their ass. I agree, Smash Brothers did it first and I guarantee that smash Brothers will still do it better (like MarioKart is still my favorite Kart Racer and Brawl is one of my favorite games this generation), but I am gonna be there day 1 to buy this game...and I truly hope to enjoy every second of it. Coming on here to see the seething mass of hate is not only disheartening, it's enraging.

People on this thread (and moreso over on the other thread about this game) have managed to turn my mood from super happy and excited to defensive and aggressive. There was a period of about a full day where I honestly forgot about the game's qualities and instead focussed on the ignorance and pathetic nature of the haters. I wanted nothing more than to reach through the internet and smack people around for their stupidity.

Can't people learn how to be more optimistic? Would it kill people to not sweat the small stuff and focus on the good stuff? I want to have fun, not worry about what people think of me for wanting a game like Sony all stars, and the internet community has made me so frustrated I want to punch through a wall. I just want to be excited at the prospect of playing a sony brawler, and you people have made it impossible.

Like, look at it this way:

1 - for one, this game will probably have functional online. Smash Brothers, good as it is, does not have this. Even with flawless internet connection, brawl games are glitchy and lack finesse.

2 - For two, this game has already been confirmed to have a load of DLC potential, something Nintendo has dropped the ball on. we COULD have new levels and new characters, but instead we get the stuff made ingame. that's cool and all, but sorely a waste of potential.

3 - While the core gameplay is pretty similar in function and feel, there are a lot of small things that drastically change the game. NOT losing lives based on falling off the stage is a big one, so is the advent and importance of the three tiers of super moves. While the movement and attacks operate much the same way as Smash Brothers, those key differences make the game very different overall. I'm sure once people actually PLAY it, they'll agree.

4 - Mixed up Levels are an awesome idea. functionally not all that different, but it's still a nice way to make the game special and give the developers more creative freedom for that potential DLC

5 - while it's not an option at the time, I'm still certain that they will include a patch later on to make the game 7-player, which would mark a HUGE improvement over 4 players on Brawl. I think this could go either way, but it's kind of disappointing to think that they could almost double the potential players and they didn't.

Just...look at the positives, guys, don't focus on the negatives. a little bit of optimism goes a very, VERY long way to lowering your blood pressure.

It would've been better had they been true.

It's not about Nintendo owning a genre, it's about them having dibs on the exact same look and feel as Brawl. Compare games like Power Stone, Outfoxies (like Gilgamesh mentioned), with Brawl and PABR. These games are 4 player or large-level battle games, but only two are identical in look, feel and physics (pumelling, juggling, grabbing), see for yourself:

Power Stone 2 (start at time 0:14)

Outfoxies (2 players, but brawler style - start at 1:30):

Smash Brawl (start at 0:20)

PABR (start at 0:20)

Granted some point and killing mechanics are changed and those are welcome additions, but the point of this thread is to show that the game is largely copied, and the fact that two members as intelligent as you and Torrilian don't concede that really drives me up the wall.

Sal, this was what I wanted to post earlier for you, but here it is. It's all about calling things as they are, no denial, no cover-ups.

Paragraph 1. There's already a thread for talking about the positives, it's at Gilga's thread, and it's linked in the OP. Complaining about this thread is very out of place, the purpose is for us to talk about how it annoys us and how we can get over it more easily and build bridges where this might turn us against for x y z reasons.

Paragraph 2. We're all doing our best to, but I promise, you aren't helping.

Instead of judging us, try to see where we're coming from, as we are doing our best to see where you're coming from.

In other words, don't be so condescending.

edit: not worth the argument, do your best to get over someone other than Nintendo making a brawler game I guess.  

^What I'd like to get over are gamers who can't see how PABR is not just another brawler, it's a clone. That's the point of this thread, and hopefully I'll come to grips with it.

If it's not worth the argument, then how are we supposed to build bridges?

Just asking...

Then you wonder why guys like me have a hard time getting along with some of you.

It's all too much denial and "not worth the efforts" with you guys, like you are better. The debate IS pointless, you're right, because you've already made up your mind, whereas I've already shown flexibility on the topic time and time again.

Then I and others like me are the closed-minded ones... Really, it gets insulting.