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Forums - Nintendo - Wii never maxed out?

F0X on 17 April 2012
happydolphin said:
Bottom line guys, Monster Hunter Tri and games like Xenoblade came out too late. Only now are they attracting graphics cores to the Wii. It just wasn't soon enough to set the trend. As much as the Wii wasn't maxed out, as much as we can't blame the devs. Honestly.

Oh, so this particular game console broke the norm by being maxed out near the end of its life, as opposed to sooner? I am completely and utterly shocked.  (sarcasm)

This is how I feel about this entire discussion. I'm just taking it out on Dolphin here.



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happydolphin on 17 April 2012
RolStoppable said:
happydolphin said:

I will reply with equal respect.

Since we know that the Wii was propelled by titles that attracted an audience that did not seek high-end graphics (true, entertainment value is just as important if not more important than graphics, but not at the full expense of seriousness in theme), that set the tone for the platform as a whole. In order to cash-in on the trend and inject entertainment value, most partners followed Nintendo's lead by offering titles with little aesthetic quality (fun graphics, but not interesting as a whole). Examples of these are Zack and Wiki, trauma center, no more heroes, Just Dance, Namco GoGo vacation, and such. In setting this trend, Nintendo did not create a market for games that featured advanced graphics. They were lucky to have Monster Hunter Tri.

That's why I said that if everyone goes to the same well, it will eventually be dry.

While Wii Sports sold Wiis left, right and center, games like The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess, Super Paper Mario, Metroid Prime 3: Corruption and Super Mario Galaxy easily passed the one million mark. These are all aesthetically pleasing Nintendo games released during the first year. The only third party game to qualify for this criteria [advanced graphics], Sonic and the Secret Rings, easily crossed the million mark as well.

All facts point to an existing market for games with advanced graphics.

And remember Rol, as far as we know, Nintendo's sales pitch to their partners was that you didn't need to inject money into your games on their platforms since that's not what the Wii was about. Amiright? If not, where were the F-Zero GX, Rogue Squadron-like efforts and partnerships on Wii?

And let's not forget another very important thing, some games are just better suited for teapots (as fillet so well put it) than others, it seems RL is one such case. Maybe racers too? idk.

That's wrong. Lower development costs for the Wii don't equal to "don't spend any money on graphics". The incentive was that you didn't need the latest and greatest HD graphics to get people to buy your games, so a modest increase in graphics over the sixth generation is sufficient. Games were not meant to look bad, that would be silly. Development costs for AAA software on the Wii were estimated by numerous developers to be only 25-50 % of what they were for the HD consoles. That's an average.

If all this were true Rol, you would expect Nintendo to have developed some kind of partnership with 3rd party developers to co-develop a high-end game so as to foster a market. I didn't see it happen, certainly not early on in Wii's life. Are devs to blame for Nintendo's lack of incentive?

I also can't accept Super Paper Mario as a game of aesthetics that cater to graphics cores. And Twilight Princess was a Gamecube game. Mario Galaxy, though absolutely gorgeous, is not what that market was looking for in terms of art design. Too kiddy, let's just call it at face value.



fordy on 17 April 2012
happydolphin said:

Why you would blame developers when high-end graphics could be pulled off more easily on the competitors' machine...


You mean like the PS3? Wanna ask those developers who extended development times substantially just how much of a hump they had to get over to program for the Cell? So answer for me, why spend all the resources on Cell development, rather than just use the Xbox 360?



happydolphin on 17 April 2012
F0X said:
happydolphin said:
Bottom line guys, Monster Hunter Tri and games like Xenoblade came out too late. Only now are they attracting graphics cores to the Wii. It just wasn't soon enough to set the trend. As much as the Wii wasn't maxed out, as much as we can't blame the devs. Honestly.

Oh, so this particular game console broke the norm by being maxed out near the end of its life, as opposed to sooner? I am completely and utterly shocked.  (sarcasm)

This is how I feel about this entire discussion. I'm just taking it out on Dolphin here.


mhmmheheheheh That's not what that meant. Haha, but you made me giggle. I meant the type of game. Of course Tri and Xenoblade could have been produced earlier in Wii's lifecycle, they didn't even max out the console as far as I know (haven't played Xenoblade yet but from what I hear, yeah?)

Edit: Anyways, the whole point of this thread is that RL, a launch title I may add, shows the true powers of the gamecube. Nuff said imho.



happydolphin on 17 April 2012
fordy said:
happydolphin said:

Why you would blame developers when high-end graphics could be pulled off more easily on the Xbox 360 machine...


You mean like the PS3? Wanna ask those developers who extended development times substantially just how much of a hump they had to get over to program for the Cell? So answer for me, why spend all the resources on Cell development, rather than just use the Xbox 360?

fixed.



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fordy on 17 April 2012
happydolphin said:
fordy said:
happydolphin said:

Why you would blame developers when high-end graphics could be pulled off more easily on the Xbox 360 machine...


You mean like the PS3? Wanna ask those developers who extended development times substantially just how much of a hump they had to get over to program for the Cell? So answer for me, why spend all the resources on Cell development, rather than just use the Xbox 360?

fixed.

That doesnt answer the question. By your logic, PS3 should have been dead on arrival because everybody would have refused to program to that level when there's an easier option on the market.



DieAppleDie on 17 April 2012

So now programming for an HD console is somehow cheaper or easier than doing it for PS2 alike one?
just WOW!



F0X on 17 April 2012
happydolphin said:
F0X said:
happydolphin said:
Bottom line guys, Monster Hunter Tri and games like Xenoblade came out too late. Only now are they attracting graphics cores to the Wii. It just wasn't soon enough to set the trend. As much as the Wii wasn't maxed out, as much as we can't blame the devs. Honestly.

Oh, so this particular game console broke the norm by being maxed out near the end of its life, as opposed to sooner? I am completely and utterly shocked.  (sarcasm)

This is how I feel about this entire discussion. I'm just taking it out on Dolphin here.


mhmmheheheheh That's not what that meant. Haha, but you made me giggle. I meant the type of game. Of course Tri and Xenoblade could have been produced earlier in Wii's lifecycle, they didn't even max out the console as far as I know (haven't played Xenoblade yet but from what I hear, yeah?)

Edit: Anyways, the whole point of this thread is that RL, a launch title I may add, shows the true powers of the gamecube. Nuff said imho.

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if Xenoblade did max out the Wii. Those draw distances are absolutely insane. Also, the first Rogue Squadron did not max out the GameCube. F-Zero GX and later RS installments say hello.



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happydolphin on 17 April 2012

Sorry guys, not ignoring you, I'm on the phone with my mom lol



Viper1 on 17 April 2012
Joelcool7 said:
Viper1 said:
Joelcool7 said:
Here's the thing Rogue Squadron was a behemoth it had a massive budget and the best experts from LucasArts to help produce a master piece. Even Nintendo struggles to get those kinds of resources. Wasn't the budget for RSII like 25-million USD. At that time and for GameCube that was a monumental budget and Factor5 built their engine pretty much from the ground up. This game was one of the flag ship titles for GameCube and its sequel unfortunetly refused a ton of material from the first GCN Rogue Squadron but was bloody amazing none the less.

The loss of Factor5 is unforgivable. The studio should have been saved I blame Sony LAIR was a bad project and Factor5 should never have gotten involved with Sony.

No way in hell.   They had at most 40 people working on the title with 2 year development cycle and many reusable assets from Rougle Squadron II.   $8 million budget at max. 

 

By the way, Factor 5 is not totally gone.  Only the US studio is closed.  The German headquaters and studio are still open and working on proejcts.


Ya if you reread my post I was referring to Rogue Squadron II and not III. I remember watching interviews prior to its launch in which the developers boasted that the engine and everything was built from the ground up. The game used some of LucasArts licensed lighting and special effects technology. It was the largest budget LucasArts game released in a while. I'm not sure how many staff were involved in the Rogue Squadron II but its budget was collosal. The game was one of the flag ship titles for GameCube and Lucas Arts and the other partners spared no expense in producing it. I seem to recall the 25-million dollar figure though that was about decade ago so I might be off slightly. As for 8-million for the III not likely that high as I and you pointed out they reused the engine and a ton of material I would say 4-6 million most likely.

 

As for the closure of Factor5 ya I know they are still technically around. But the closure of their American studio and downsizing etc..etc.. is simply unforgivable. Somebody should invest some cash in restoring the studio. If I was Lucas Arts I would acquire them and get them back on Rogue Squadron asap!

They made one of the best and most successful Star Wars titles of all time, they are among Lucas Arts best chances at making Star Wars a video game super power again.

The budget for RSII couldn't have been that big either.  In fact, it might actually have been smaller.   27 people across a total of 15 months (9 months of full time work) in 2001 comes out to about $2.5 million.  Licensing, voice actors and overhead might add a further $500,000.  So we're looking at $3 million.   I'll even stretch it to $4 million but that allows for blind expenses that I can't allocate for.

I'll even state that it didn't cost Factor 5 $25 million to develop the entire series.  Perhaps even as little as half of that.



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