By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Nintendo - Wii never maxed out?

happydolphin on 18 April 2012
RolStoppable said:
happydolphin said:

Are we talking about the same 3rd parties? Capcom, Namco, Sega, Factor 5, Silicon Knights. I know that the last 2 went a different route for reason much more important than Nintendo shunning. But I don't remember either of the 1st three publicly talking down on the Wii, its owners and certainly not Nintendo.

Are you maybe blurring things a little?

Capcom stated that the Wii couldn't run Resident Evil 5's title screen (which turned out to be orange letters on black background). I don't remember anything particular from Namco at the moment, but Sega had at least a guy from one of their HD games studios badmouthing the Wii for no good reason.

Nintendo and Sega actually had a better partnership during the Wii era than during the GC days. You know, Mario & Sonic. Then again, considering Sega's state, it's not really like they were welcome on the HD consoles, so they weren't against Nintendo per se like most other third parties. They also provided the only Wii third party title with advanced graphics during the system's first year.

Yah. I'm a little surpried, but keep in mind, certain people don't really represent the sentiment of the company itself. Still crappy to hear though.



Around the Network
fordy on 18 April 2012
happydolphin said:

The difference between Playstation and Nintendo coming into gen7 is that the PS was the undisputed dominant leader of the industry, while Nintendo was a shameful loser (let's call it what it is), despite the huge money they made off the GBA and its golden pokemon brand.

Sony was in a position to bargain with 3rd parties, Nintendwasn't.


The same could be said when Sony entered the console race. Nintendo had virtually full control of the market at that time. In  fact, Sony has never came close to the marketshare that Nintendo enjoyed at one point (I believe it was the high 80th percentile), and nobody ever will again.

However, you are right in a way. The same reason why the effort is not being put in to polish Wii titles is the same as what you mentioned as why Sony got such an biased 3rd party support base for such a mistake. Politics (let's call it what it is).



happydolphin on 18 April 2012
fordy said:
happydolphin said:

The difference between Playstation and Nintendo coming into gen7 is that the PS was the undisputed dominant leader of the industry, while Nintendo was a shameful loser (let's call it what it is), despite the huge money they made off the GBA and its golden pokemon brand.

Sony was in a position to bargain with 3rd parties, Nintendwasn't.


The same could be said when Sony entered the console race. Nintendo had virtually full control of the market at that time. In  fact, Sony has never came close to the marketshare that Nintendo enjoyed at one point (I believe it was the high 80th percentile), and nobody ever will again.

However, you are right in a way. The same reason why the effort is not being put in to polish Wii titles is the same as what you mentioned as why Sony got such an biased 3rd party support base for such a mistake. Politics (let's call it what it is).

Let's!



Viper1 on 18 April 2012

No console is ever maxed out.   Some get pushed harder than others.  But a maximum limitation to what can be extracted from a console isn't really a solid factor.  New software tricks, new compression techniques, new data streaming methods, etc....it's always advancing.  You might be able to max out what your studio is capable of with the tools and talent you have.   But because techniques are constantly developing and improving, that maximum limitation is always retreating.

fordy said:

The same could be said when Sony entered the console race. Nintendo had virtually full control of the market at that time. In  fact, Sony has never came close to the marketshare that Nintendo enjoyed at one point (I believe it was the high 80th percentile), and nobody ever will again.

However, you are right in a way. The same reason why the effort is not being put in to polish Wii titles is the same as what you mentioned as why Sony got such an biased 3rd party support base for such a mistake. Politics (let's call it what it is).

They had a 78% market share in the NES era.   But only a 50% share in the SNES era.  

Sony's PS1 had a market share of 65% while the PS2 enjoyed a market share of 72%.



The rEVOLution is not being televised

curl-6 on 18 April 2012
Viper1 said:

No console is ever maxed out.   Some get pushed harder than others.  But a maximum limitation to what can be extracted from a console isn't really a solid factor.  New software tricks, new compression techniques, new data streaming methods, etc....it's always advancing.  You might be able to max out what your studio is capable of with the tools and talent you have.   But because techniques are constantly developing and improving, that maximum limitation is always retreating.

Completely valid point. Let me rephrase; was the Wii never pushed as hard as Factor 5 pushed the GC?

I don't think it was. The only Wii game I've seen that rivals Rogue Squdron II and III in terms of shaders and visual effects is Jett Rocket, and that has less going on at once.



Around the Network
lilbroex on 18 April 2012
Viper1 said:

No console is ever maxed out.   Some get pushed harder than others.  But a maximum limitation to what can be extracted from a console isn't really a solid factor.  New software tricks, new compression techniques, new data streaming methods, etc....it's always advancing.  You might be able to max out what your studio is capable of with the tools and talent you have.   But because techniques are constantly developing and improving, that maximum limitation is always retreating.

fordy said:

The same could be said when Sony entered the console race. Nintendo had virtually full control of the market at that time. In  fact, Sony has never came close to the marketshare that Nintendo enjoyed at one point (I believe it was the high 80th percentile), and nobody ever will again.

However, you are right in a way. The same reason why the effort is not being put in to polish Wii titles is the same as what you mentioned as why Sony got such an biased 3rd party support base for such a mistake. Politics (let's call it what it is).

They had a 78% market share in the NES era.   But only a 50% share in the SNES era.  

Sony's PS1 had a market share of 65% while the PS2 enjoyed a market share of 72%.

False. Most consoles have been maxed out. 

FF3 maxed out the NES. Star Ocean and Tengai Makyo(Far East of Eden) maxed out the SNES. Alien Soldier and Ristar maxed out the Sega Genesis. Pefrect Dark, DK64 and Rogue Squadron maxed out the N64. Tekken 3 and Driver 2 maxed out the PSX. Panzer Dragoon Orta, Guardian Heroes and Duke Nukem 3D pushed the Saturn. Shenmue pushed the Dreamcast to the fullest. Gran Turismo 4, God of War 2 and FFXII pushed the PS2 to the max. Killzone/Uncharted 3 and Heavy Rain pushed PS3 to the max. Skyrim and Gears of War 2 pushed the 360 to the max.



Viper1 on 18 April 2012
lilbroex said:
Viper1 said:

No console is ever maxed out.   Some get pushed harder than others.  But a maximum limitation to what can be extracted from a console isn't really a solid factor.  New software tricks, new compression techniques, new data streaming methods, etc....it's always advancing.  You might be able to max out what your studio is capable of with the tools and talent you have.   But because techniques are constantly developing and improving, that maximum limitation is always retreating.

fordy said:

The same could be said when Sony entered the console race. Nintendo had virtually full control of the market at that time. In  fact, Sony has never came close to the marketshare that Nintendo enjoyed at one point (I believe it was the high 80th percentile), and nobody ever will again.

However, you are right in a way. The same reason why the effort is not being put in to polish Wii titles is the same as what you mentioned as why Sony got such an biased 3rd party support base for such a mistake. Politics (let's call it what it is).

They had a 78% market share in the NES era.   But only a 50% share in the SNES era.  

Sony's PS1 had a market share of 65% while the PS2 enjoyed a market share of 72%.

False. Most consoles have been maxed out. 

FF3 maxed out the NES. Star Ocean and Tengai Makyo(Far East of Eden) maxed out the SNES. Alien Soldier and Ristar maxed out the Sega Genesis. Pefrect Dark, DK64 and Rogue Squadron maxed out the N64. Tekken 3 and Driver 2 maxed out the PSX. Panzer Dragoon Orta, Guardian Heroes and Duke Nukem 3D pushed the Saturn. Shenmue pushed the Dreamcast to the fullest. Gran Turismo 4, God of War 2 and FFXII pushed the PS2 to the max. Killzone/Uncharted 3 and Heavy Rain pushed PS3 to the max. Skyrim and Gears of War 2 pushed the 360 to the max.

I just explained why the concept of 'maxing out a console' is an incorrect belief yet you continue to hold your position.  Stranger still is that you list many games wherein the same developer relased an even more technically impressive game on the same console later on thereby debunking your own theory that those games maxed out that console.

Better stated, as Curl-6 recently pointed out, is to say which games pushed the console the hardest.



The rEVOLution is not being televised

fordy on 18 April 2012
lilbroex said:

False. Most consoles have been maxed out. 

FF3 maxed out the NES. Star Ocean and Tengai Makyo(Far East of Eden) maxed out the SNES. Alien Soldier and Ristar maxed out the Sega Genesis. Pefrect Dark, DK64 and Rogue Squadron maxed out the N64. Tekken 3 and Driver 2 maxed out the PSX. Panzer Dragoon Orta, Guardian Heroes and Duke Nukem 3D pushed the Saturn. Shenmue pushed the Dreamcast to the fullest. Gran Turismo 4, God of War 2 and FFXII pushed the PS2 to the max. Killzone/Uncharted 3 and Heavy Rain pushed PS3 to the max. Skyrim and Gears of War 2 pushed the 360 to the max.

Cartridge based consoles could not be maxed out. Why? Because they'd always be able to keep adding additional electronics to a cartridge to make the system perform better than it was benchmarked to. 

The NES was only capable of addressing 32KB of ROM, but the use of Memory mapper chips broke that limitation. There was also functionality to override the PPU and pAPU with even more powerful variations on the cartridge. Also, check out the many co-processors available for the SNES (SuperFX, SA-1, etc).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_SA-1#SA-1

Of course, the later consoles are too saturated in clock cycles to fully utilise. Of course, no company WOULD fully 100% utilise a console. The code would be non-modular and unable to be re-used in other games (woud be too specific) as well as take too much time to go through with a fine-toothed comb. They'd never get their money back, no matter how well it sold.



gumby_trucker on 18 April 2012

finally found some decent captures that do the Rougue Squadron games justice:

a few more here: http://mixnmojo.com/media/galleries/Star-Wars-Rogue-Squadron-III-Rebel-Strike-Screenshots



Until you've played it, every game is a system seller!

the original trolls

Wii FC: 4810 9420 3131 7558
MHTri: name=BOo BoO/ID=BZBLEX/region=US

mini-games on consoles, cinematic games on handhelds, what's next? GameBoy IMAX?

Official Member of the Pikmin Fan Club

lilbroex on 18 April 2012
fordy said:
lilbroex said:

False. Most consoles have been maxed out. 

FF3 maxed out the NES. Star Ocean and Tengai Makyo(Far East of Eden) maxed out the SNES. Alien Soldier and Ristar maxed out the Sega Genesis. Pefrect Dark, DK64 and Rogue Squadron maxed out the N64. Tekken 3 and Driver 2 maxed out the PSX. Panzer Dragoon Orta, Guardian Heroes and Duke Nukem 3D pushed the Saturn. Shenmue pushed the Dreamcast to the fullest. Gran Turismo 4, God of War 2 and FFXII pushed the PS2 to the max. Killzone/Uncharted 3 and Heavy Rain pushed PS3 to the max. Skyrim and Gears of War 2 pushed the 360 to the max.

Cartridge based consoles could not be maxed out. Why? Because they'd always be able to keep adding additional electronics to a cartridge to make the system perform better than it was benchmarked to. 

The NES was only capable of addressing 32KB of ROM, but the use of Memory mapper chips broke that limitation. There was also functionality to override the PPU and pAPU with even more powerful variations on the cartridge. Also, check out the many co-processors available for the SNES (SuperFX, SA-1, etc).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_SA-1#SA-1

Of course, the later consoles are too saturated in clock cycles to fully utilise. Of course, no company WOULD fully 100% utilise a console. The code would be non-modular and unable to be re-used in ther games (woud be too specific) as well as take too much time to go through with a fine-toothed comb. They'd never get their money back, no matter how well it sold.

When I say "maxed out" the console it means with all factors included. Cartridge and memory mapping limitations are a facts of the console. Technically, to my knowledge at least, the N64's super mode was never used in an actual game(maybe Rogue Squadron on the 64 but I'm not sure). It would cripple the graphics capabilities so bad that it was pretty much worthless.

Few games if any used both of the Saturn's processors.


I'm primarily talking about the graphical maxes of the system, not memory, cpu strength(aside from physics), storage limitations. We aren't taking this to ridiculous, potentionally possible extremes.  The games I listed are what I'm talking about in its purest form. Games that use all of the features that the base console has to offer.