Joelcool7 said: Here's the thing Rogue Squadron was a behemoth it had a massive budget and the best experts from LucasArts to help produce a master piece. Even Nintendo struggles to get those kinds of resources. Wasn't the budget for RSII like 25-million USD. At that time and for GameCube that was a monumental budget and Factor5 built their engine pretty much from the ground up. This game was one of the flag ship titles for GameCube and its sequel unfortunetly refused a ton of material from the first GCN Rogue Squadron but was bloody amazing none the less. The loss of Factor5 is unforgivable. The studio should have been saved I blame Sony LAIR was a bad project and Factor5 should never have gotten involved with Sony.

No way in hell.   They had at most 40 people working on the title with 2 year development cycle and many reusable assets from Rougle Squadron II.   $8 million budget at max. 

 

By the way, Factor 5 is not totally gone.  Only the US studio is closed.  The German headquaters and studio are still open and working on proejcts.

I think that, with the Wii, many devs just didn't feel the need to go for the systems full potential because even the Wii's best looking game wouldn't even look as good as Bee Movie on an HD system. They just didn't bother.

A great artist with a box of crayons to work with vs a mediocre artist with all of the tools that a PC offers. The great artist can spend hundreds of hours on his creation and it will still look worse than the work of the guy using a PC. So, the great artist would have to be clever. He'd have to impress us with his creativity instead of his ability to create realism. And in the case of the Wii, you had a lot of mediocre artists using crayons, too.

Viper1 said: Joelcool7 said: Here's the thing Rogue Squadron was a behemoth it had a massive budget and the best experts from LucasArts to help produce a master piece. Even Nintendo struggles to get those kinds of resources. Wasn't the budget for RSII like 25-million USD. At that time and for GameCube that was a monumental budget and Factor5 built their engine pretty much from the ground up. This game was one of the flag ship titles for GameCube and its sequel unfortunetly refused a ton of material from the first GCN Rogue Squadron but was bloody amazing none the less. The loss of Factor5 is unforgivable. The studio should have been saved I blame Sony LAIR was a bad project and Factor5 should never have gotten involved with Sony. No way in hell.   They had at most 40 people working on the title with 2 year development cycle and many reusable assets from Rougle Squadron II.   $8 million budget at max.    By the way, Factor 5 is not totally gone.  Only the US studio is closed.  The German headquaters and studio are still open and working on proejcts.

Ya if you reread my post I was referring to Rogue Squadron II and not III. I remember watching interviews prior to its launch in which the developers boasted that the engine and everything was built from the ground up. The game used some of LucasArts licensed lighting and special effects technology. It was the largest budget LucasArts game released in a while. I'm not sure how many staff were involved in the Rogue Squadron II but its budget was collosal. The game was one of the flag ship titles for GameCube and Lucas Arts and the other partners spared no expense in producing it. I seem to recall the 25-million dollar figure though that was about decade ago so I might be off slightly. As for 8-million for the III not likely that high as I and you pointed out they reused the engine and a ton of material I would say 4-6 million most likely.

As for the closure of Factor5 ya I know they are still technically around. But the closure of their American studio and downsizing etc..etc.. is simply unforgivable. Somebody should invest some cash in restoring the studio. If I was Lucas Arts I would acquire them and get them back on Rogue Squadron asap!

They made one of the best and most successful Star Wars titles of all time, they are among Lucas Arts best chances at making Star Wars a video game super power again.

robzo100 said: F Zero GX and Rogue Squadron both pushed the limits of the gamecube I felt. And yes, like someone else said, Rogue Squadron was a LAUNCH title. pretty impressive. You could probably throw Twilight Princess in as well. Good enough graphics to be a wii launch title

This isn't simply about which games we thought looked better or preferred. That's a matter of opinion, not technical achievement.We aren't judging the games by how much we liked them and the way their looks appealed to us.

On a technical level, Twilight Princess and F-Zero GX pushed absolutely nothing. There was a lot that could have been done graphically. Neither of them used advanced texture effects like bump mapping or normal mapping.

Even if a game looked like crap and wasn't fun to play, it could still be technically superior. Like Cursed Moutain. It used HDR lighting which was done by only a handful of games on teh Wii, but the game was horrible to actually play.

lilbroex said: robzo100 said: F Zero GX and Rogue Squadron both pushed the limits of the gamecube I felt. And yes, like someone else said, Rogue Squadron was a LAUNCH title. pretty impressive. You could probably throw Twilight Princess in as well. Good enough graphics to be a wii launch title This isn't simply about which games we thought looked better or preferred. That's a matter of opinion, not technical achievement.We aren't judging the games by how much we liked them and the way their looks appealed to us. On a technical level, Twilight Princess and F-Zero GX pushed absolutely nothing. There was a lot that could have been done graphically. Neither of them used advanced texture effects like bump mapping or normal mapping. Even if a game looked like crap and wasn't fun to play, it could still be technically superior. Like Cursed Moutain. It used HDR lighting which was done by only a handful of games on teh Wii, but the game was horrible to actually play.

Well I certainly am beat when it comes to that kind of technical knowledge.  Carry on then.

In either case, I'm still impressed with whatever the designers did to make f-zero look the way it did.

Sonic Team was one of the few third parties to actually push the Wii hardware. Sonic & the Secret Rings was one of the best looking launch window games, and Sonic Unleashed/Sonic & the Black Knight/Sonic Colors all look awesome on the system.

But yeah, there's only a handful of non-1st party developers that really pushed the system.

EDIT: Woo broke the thread!

MOD EDIT~Barozi: Fixed it and it wasn't your fault.

DieAppleDie said: i remember when i first saw Rouge leader it was so fukng amazing, it took 10 min to load with my 56k modem, will never forget that......... on topic, wii is never going to be maxed out just cause the more u spent on the project the better it will look, simple as that, nintendo developments are usually "cheaper" and 3rd partys suck on wii ,not wiis fault since is more powerfull than GC if developers wanted they could create better looking games than the GC ones DEVELOPERS FAULT!!!!

Why you would blame developers when high-end graphics could be pulled off more easily on the competitors' machine... What Factor  5 pulled off on the cube, they did it at a time when the cube was top of the line (on par with xbox). So, why would anyone want to push high-end graphics on a machine that was not intended for that is beyond me. And to blame someone for that is even more ludicrous.

As someone so cleverly said in another thread.

Ludicrous statements + place to share = forum.

RolStoppable said: Obviously, the Wii was nowhere near of being maxed out. Reasonable people blame developers, irrational people blame the machine.

 

The big kickstorm Nintendo received for releasing an "underpowered" system with the Wii, and these very same developers couldn't even max such "underpowered" hardware out...

I assure you, if developers spent as much time with Wii's specs as they did trying to fight their way through learning Cell's design and coding practices, the Wii would have some of the most visually impressive games of this generation, DESPITE being on less capable hardware.

happydolphin
are u just bored or simply not used to basic logic

THE MORE RESOURCES THE BETTER GRAPHICS NO MATTER WHAT CONSOLE
IF U DONT WANT TO SPEND RESOURCES THE RESULT IS WORST GRAPHICS
U being developers, its their decision so their fault for releasing games with bad graphics and being cheap moneymakers

"So, why would anyone want to push high-end graphics on a machine that was not intended for that is beyond me"
Maybe because is the top selling console?

DieAppleDie said: happydolphin are u just bored or simply not used to basic logic THE MORE RESOURCES THE BETTER GRAPHICS NO MATTER WHAT CONSOLE IF U DONT WANT TO SPEND RESOURCES THE RESULT IS WORST GRAPHICS U being developers, its their decision so their fault for releasing games with bad graphics and being cheap moneymakers "So, why would anyone want to push high-end graphics on a machine that was not intended for that is beyond me" Maybe because is the top selling console?

Maybe it was a PoS! Maybe Nintendo knew what they were releasing to the industry, and they couldn't care less if it wasn't meant to push advanced graphics. And then people blame the devs, give me a break.

Listen bud, I love Nintendo, but a spade's a spade.