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Forums - General - Are the values we hold 'Christian values'?

Raido on 22 February 2012

Morals are totally subjective. The bible is even proof of it, since a lot of things that happen in that book are considered immoral today, which shows that we have developed our society morals. Everybody, even christians, chooses what is moral in his eyes...



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highwaystar101 on 23 February 2012
happydolphin said:
highwaystar101 said:
I think Christian values are the interpretation of the natural behaviour of humans and the conventions of the time and place. If our values were taken directly from the bible we would look down on people for things like emancipation and divorce, which in many cases serves a real purpose in modern society.

That's not to say that values aren't taken from Christianity though. A lot of modern society's values are in essence Christian, but I believe the Christian values are in turn based on nature and society's conventions/needs.

In a nutshell, I think Christian values act as a middle-man for human instinct.


@italics. It's a good post, but I disagree with italics. If by Christian values you mean values which are derived by people from Christian doctrine, maybe. But if you're talking about Christian values themselves (per Christian doctrine), Christ is extremely counter-intuitive. See my Jesus Difference post, especially the one where he asks us to bless those who curse us and pray for those who persecute us. That is not secular at all. Secularism (society's conventions and needs) demands justice almost at all times.

Well, ultimately Christian values are down to the interpretation of the reader, so derived by people from Christian doctrine.



happydolphin on 23 February 2012
highwaystar101 said:
happydolphin said:
highwaystar101 said:
I think Christian values are the interpretation of the natural behaviour of humans and the conventions of the time and place. If our values were taken directly from the bible we would look down on people for things like emancipation and divorce, which in many cases serves a real purpose in modern society.

That's not to say that values aren't taken from Christianity though. A lot of modern society's values are in essence Christian, but I believe the Christian values are in turn based on nature and society's conventions/needs.

In a nutshell, I think Christian values act as a middle-man for human instinct.


@italics. It's a good post, but I disagree with italics. If by Christian values you mean values which are derived by people from Christian doctrine, maybe. But if you're talking about Christian values themselves (per Christian doctrine), Christ is extremely counter-intuitive. See my Jesus Difference post, especially the one where he asks us to bless those who curse us and pray for those who persecute us. That is not secular at all. Secularism (society's conventions and needs) demands justice almost at all times.

Well, ultimately Christian values are down to the interpretation of the reader, so derived by people from Christian doctrine.

As Jesus said, those who have ears to hear, let them listen. Reading the Jesus Difference post I gave, it's hard for one to interpret it incorrectly unless one is clearly blocking their ears and understanding.

Not a suitable argument for me in this case. In other cases interpretation may be a factor, but not in Mat 5.



Dark_Lord_2008 on 24 February 2012

Religious moralist crusaders are highly hypocritical. The days of organised religions in the western world are numbered. Cults/sects like Jehovah's witnesses, Scientology and Mormon's, etc serve to brainwash and poison young impressionable minds.



Player1x3 on 25 February 2012
Rath said:
The Fury said:
Christianity installed the values in western culture just like Islam values has in middle east and Hinduism has in India as examples. Old and New testament defined a lot of basic values in most of the world. But with more modern thinking and better understanding certain 'values' have been dismissed as redundant. Those which put blame on women or claimed eating certain meats is only allowed on a Tuesday or whatever have been lost while those which can be seen as common decency remain, don't lie, cheat, steal etc. These are not specifically Christian but it depends on how you like to say how they were installed in our societies.


Those that you have listed as being seen as common decency predate Christianity in Western society. They existed in both Greek and Roman civilizations. They existed in ancient Judaism. Christianity adopted those messages from society rather than instilling them into societies.


There are similarities between them, but Christiany has its own values that have a lot more effect on westenr society (Europe & America) today. Our society today is quite different than that of Roman/Greek and old Judaistic civilizations



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sethnintendo on 25 February 2012
Player1x3 said:
Rath said:
The Fury said:
Christianity installed the values in western culture just like Islam values has in middle east and Hinduism has in India as examples. Old and New testament defined a lot of basic values in most of the world. But with more modern thinking and better understanding certain 'values' have been dismissed as redundant. Those which put blame on women or claimed eating certain meats is only allowed on a Tuesday or whatever have been lost while those which can be seen as common decency remain, don't lie, cheat, steal etc. These are not specifically Christian but it depends on how you like to say how they were installed in our societies.


Those that you have listed as being seen as common decency predate Christianity in Western society. They existed in both Greek and Roman civilizations. They existed in ancient Judaism. Christianity adopted those messages from society rather than instilling them into societies.


There are similarities between them, but Christiany has its own values that have a lot more effect on westenr society (Europe & America) today. Our society today is quite different than that of Roman/Greek and old Judaistic civilizations


What values like burn the non believers and heretics?



Player1x3 on 25 February 2012
sethnintendo said:
Player1x3 said:
Rath said:
The Fury said:
Christianity installed the values in western culture just like Islam values has in middle east and Hinduism has in India as examples. Old and New testament defined a lot of basic values in most of the world. But with more modern thinking and better understanding certain 'values' have been dismissed as redundant. Those which put blame on women or claimed eating certain meats is only allowed on a Tuesday or whatever have been lost while those which can be seen as common decency remain, don't lie, cheat, steal etc. These are not specifically Christian but it depends on how you like to say how they were installed in our societies.


Those that you have listed as being seen as common decency predate Christianity in Western society. They existed in both Greek and Roman civilizations. They existed in ancient Judaism. Christianity adopted those messages from society rather than instilling them into societies.


There are similarities between them, but Christiany has its own values that have a lot more effect on westenr society (Europe & America) today. Our society today is quite different than that of Roman/Greek and old Judaistic civilizations


What values like burn the non believers and heretics?

No, because the Bible nor Jesus said that.



sethnintendo on 25 February 2012
Player1x3 said:
sethnintendo said:


What values like burn the non believers and heretics?

No, because the Bible nor Jesus said that.

Yea, the problem with organized religion is that it is run by man and man is flawed.  So what you have here is a flawed system. 



Player1x3 on 25 February 2012
sethnintendo said:
Player1x3 said:
sethnintendo said:


What values like burn the non believers and heretics?

No, because the Bible nor Jesus said that.

Yea, the problem with organized religion is that it is run by man and man is flawed.  So what you have here is a flawed system. 

That doesnt male the religion itself flawed.



sethnintendo on 25 February 2012
Player1x3 said:
sethnintendo said:
Player1x3 said:
sethnintendo said:


What values like burn the non believers and heretics?

No, because the Bible nor Jesus said that.

Yea, the problem with organized religion is that it is run by man and man is flawed.  So what you have here is a flawed system. 

That doesnt male the religion itself flawed.

You are right and  I never stated that.  I don't have a problem with religion;  I have a problem with organized religion.  Anyways, probably getting a little off topic so I'll stop.