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Forums - General - Are the values we hold 'Christian values'?

Rath said:
Jumpin said:
Rath said:
Jumpin said:
 

Absiolute Monarchs ruled under the divine right of Kings. It was not through biblical authority. The rise of the Gutenberg printing press helped lead to the modern revolution; which included the Protestant revolution, and then various other uprisings, such as Oliver Cromwell's in England, and the age of enlightenment which followed.

It was actually post-modernism, and anti-Christian morality which brought back absolute authorities in the 20th century; as well as ideals such as social Darwinism. Although many will argue that Nietzsche's works were misinterpreted. In the end, Nietzsche was not able to really solve the riddle of how to gain a good moral system without religion. Even when he broke it down into the ideas of basic human wills. Ultimately, the discovery of post modernism was nihilism; in a world without God, everything is permitted - and this includes genocides.


I never get the idea that atheists can't have morals, frankly I find it incredibly offensive.

What authority would an atheist base his or her morality in?

Why is an authority needed for morals?

I have morals. I don't believe in God.

An authority is needed, because otherwise there is no objectivity to morals.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

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Various systems of morals can be derived from various sources. From reason for example, or from human nature.

 

I'm not much chop at philosophy so I don't plan on going too deep into this.



There is a rational basis for morality: utilitarianism. It is a rational basis for the Golden Rule and assuming that given the equality of our human desires, properly run utilitarianism sets up protections against moral relativism, because evil actions "for the greater good" are not justifiable if a better alternative is available, which is almost always the case

Utilitarianism solves most moral dilemmas without having to resort to religion, or, for that matter, any of Immanuel Kant's a priori categorical imperative nonsense. Though the categorical imperative is another rational basis for morality, it is much less straightforward, appealing to nontangible (yet non-spiritual) things.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

Jumpin said:

An authority is needed, because otherwise there is no objectivity to morals.

How about happiness? My objective is to be a happy or a healthy individual. My morals revolve around that absolute goal.



"I'm not going to go deep into philosophy because honestly, I'm not great at it."

ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US!!!

lol joking...

Well you see my friend, that is a fair point but the question of the subjective and objective nature of morals without an authority is a question hard to answer but is an important one.

Me and friends debate about these things and frankly if its religion vs atheists, religion loses.
If it is God/spiritualism/higher power vs atheists, then it always ends up as a tie.



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happydolphin said:

Jumpin said:

An authority is needed, because otherwise there is no objectivity to morals.

How about happiness? My objective is to be a happy or a healthy individual. My morals revolve around that absolute goal.

Right. In the Aristotlean sense of the word, "Happiness" is the goal of all humanity. No-one does not desire to be what i'm going to call "A-Happy" for short, because Aristotle's happiness was not limited to the emotion of joy or enjoyment, but related to the deeper notions of contentment, fulfillment, and a sense of connection with the world, as well as having all of their physical needs and desires met within reason (because overindulgence is not happiness."

Settling A-Happy as the state in which all people desire to live, one must then ask how one can best act in order to both optimize the A-Happy of themselves and others. This then is the route of utilitarianism

So i amend my previous post. It is utilitarianism founded upon the basis of Aristotlean ethics that provides the rational basis for humane morality.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

Want to ask did the christians overtrown the romans ?



 

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happydolphin said:

Jumpin said:

An authority is needed, because otherwise there is no objectivity to morals.

How about happiness? My objective is to be a happy or a healthy individual. My morals revolve around that absolute goal.

That would be subjective morality. We're getting back into post-modernism here: If it made one unhappy group of people happy to eliminate another group of people; are they incorrect to wipe out that other group of people?



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

SnakeDrake said:
Want to ask did the christians overtrown the romans ?

The people who overthrew the romans had been (or were in the process of being) converted to Christianity, but they were not primarily identified as Christians, since the Romans by that time (talking around the late 300s early 400s AD) were more or less all Christian as well



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

Mr Khan said:
happydolphin said:

Jumpin said:

An authority is needed, because otherwise there is no objectivity to morals.

How about happiness? My objective is to be a happy or a healthy individual. My morals revolve around that absolute goal.

Right. In the Aristotlean sense of the word, "Happiness" is the goal of all humanity. No-one does not desire to be what i'm going to call "A-Happy" for short, because Aristotle's happiness was not limited to the emotion of joy or enjoyment, but related to the deeper notions of contentment, fulfillment, and a sense of connection with the world, as well as having all of their physical needs and desires met within reason (because overindulgence is not happiness."

Settling A-Happy as the state in which all people desire to live, one must then ask how one can best act in order to both optimize the A-Happy of themselves and others. This then is the route of utilitarianism

So i amend my previous post. It is utilitarianism founded upon the basis of Aristotlean ethics that provides the rational basis for humane morality.

Thanks for expanding, but I'll be honest I have a difficult time with the term utilitarianism.

Utilitarianism as a term (for me at least, I may have it wrong), conveys a sense of using morals for a pragmatic purpose, and utility comes before the intrinsic value of said moral. But I believe happiness comes when one can transcend utility, and the moral is itself esteemed due to its link to what is good (which our conscience helps us discern).

Why it's a problem to me. If everything is in terms of what is useful and what isn't, well then what happens when something is not useful for me, but it is for my neighbor? I believe a person without religion can help said person, because their conscience (which makes them happy when they follow it) tells them what is right and what is wrong, beyond utility.

In this example, call it a sense of human compassion.