I don't really see how it can be claimed that liberal democracy is related to Christianity, democracy as we know it didn't rise until after the French Revolution changed everything up.

And it was justified on biblical authority.

Well over a thousand years after Christianity had become the dominant religion. During which time absolute monarchs had ruled with what they claimed to be biblical authority.

Edit: And in any case how was democracy based on biblical authority? It was based on enlightenment principles of liberty, equality and reason. It was actually born during a period of decline in religious influence.

Edit 2: Divine right of kings stuff from the New Testament

"Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every human authority: whether to the emperor, as the supreme authority, ¹⁴ or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right. ¹⁵ For it is God’s will that by doing good you should silence the ignorant talk of foolish people. ¹⁶ Live as free people, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as God’s slaves. ¹⁷ Show proper respect to everyone, love the family of believers, fear God, honor the emperor."

"and he asked them, “Whose image is this? And whose inscription?”

 ²¹ “Caesar’s,” they replied.

   Then he said to them, “So give back to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s.”"

" ¹ Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. ² Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. ³ For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. ⁴ For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. ⁵ Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.

 ⁶ This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. ⁷ Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor."

Actually had an argument about that with my dad earlier this year, he stated that without Christianity, the West wouldn't be what it was today. Apparently Jesus et co had introduced the concept of actually treating each other civilly, I disagreed and said that we would have come to it eventually, he may have been a catalyst
(Even if he was real), but certainly not the deciding factor.

I am agnostic, and to be fair, the way people treat each other in the West is not much better than the other countries which are considered "worse off". Funnily enough, here, people fuck each other up financially, all the time.

Absolute Monarchs ruled under the divine right of Kings; not through biblical authority. The issue was that in the middle ages, very few were literate, and even fewer had access to a bible. First of all, bibles were generally in Latin or antiquated Greek, and not the native languages of most Europeans. The rise of the Gutenberg printing press helped lead to the modern revolution; which included the Protestant revolution, uprisings such as Oliver Cromwell's in England, the age of enlightenment, and the French Revolution.

It was actually post-modernism, and anti-Christian morality which brought back absolute authorities in the 20th century; as well as ideals such as social Darwinism. Although many will argue that Nietzsche's works were misinterpreted. In the end, Nietzsche was not able to really solve the riddle of how to gain a good moral system without religion. Even when he broke it down into the ideas of basic human wills. Ultimately, the discovery of post modernism was nihilism; in a world without God, everything is permitted - and this includes genocides.

I never get the idea that atheists can't have morals, frankly I find it incredibly offensive.

What authority would an atheist base his or her morality in?

Why is an authority needed for morals?

I have morals. I don't believe in God.

If this can help. 

13For it is not those who hear the law (Religious folks) who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law (i.e. secular folk), do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) 16This will take place on the day when God will judge men’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

Romans 2

The apostle Paul recognizes the conscience. It is given by God to all men, believer, Jew, or not.

"Why is an authority needed for morals?"

The question is not about having morals but what is your authority that your morals are based of?

The authority is rules and regulations, society's collective attitudes or basing of a religion.

Well if you base your morals based of what you think, how can you say x's morals are bad? Meaning your morals are easily changeable  and are simply what you think is right.

The whole point being without an authority for morals to be derived from, will morals simply become a cost benefit analysis rather then actually standing up for anything?


I am not saying morals are only based of religion, but if you think about it, basing your entire morality over what you think is right does not automatically hold greater weight over someone basing his morals off God.

For example If I say I do not drink or smoke as its forbitdon by my religion and one says I drink because I think all is good in moderation.
Who is right?

One side bases his opinion off a religion and the other bases his on his personal wants and desires.

So, I remind everyone when we laught at religious people for having wierd beliefs (like not eating meat), think about what our values are based on.