I see you've conveniently skipped my solitaire point.

Sorry, definitions are subjective and outdated. Like you I would prefer to make up new ones.

The reason for why videogames were considered toys from the 80's to 90's was because of Nintendo. They never outgrew the images they created 25+ years ago. This was the era when videogames were considered toys. The perception has changed ever since Sony entered the gaming realm. They turned the videogame console into a viable gaming machine that could be enjoyed by adults as well and give more mature visuals much like what is seen on PC games. Arcades were respected in those days because they had the graphics and once Sony came into the console market it slowly ate away at the arcades because they created graphical powerhouses that could be played at home. Sony is responsible for turning the gaming the videogame console into the home center. This is what prompted Microsoft to join. Microsoft saw that Sony was turning the videogame system into a console that becomes the living room center. It is made for games, but because of the format it uses can also play DVD's, music and store other files secondary to its main purpose. It split gamers in half as to what was kiddy and what wasn't. Nintendo never grew up in that way, which is why it maintains that toy and novelty image though everyone still respects them for what they've contributed to the industry. That can never be taken away. Comparing videogames to toys today is like calling a DVD player or PC a toy, which is completely and utterly retarded. Videogame consoles are the center of the living room today, nothing more, nothing less. In the entertainment industry videogames could well be the replacement for movies, because videogames help you delve into complex worlds only seen in movies.

Secondly, your statement on the casuals makes absolutely no sense. Casuals do not like games more than the hardcore, which is why they are called casuals. You also bastardized the definitions I gave to you as to what casual means. Go and tell an actual game developer who plays through the teeth to go to expensive schools that he makes games for toys. He's not a toy maker. Seeing as how you skewed the definition of what a toy from the actual defition that I got from dictionary.com I would say you were a troll. This is my last post to you.

P.S.

I am studying illustration, storyboarding and concept art at a school where they make videogames. I think I know what is meant for children and adults and what is a toy and what isn't.

Euphoria14 said: I see you've conveniently skipped my solitaire point.

Honestly I got confused at ninja turtles.

Your computer isn't a toy, it could be but in this situation it's like the playroom. You go into your playroom and pick up your puzzle toy.

You can make games out of your ninja turtle toys if you want. You could invite someone over and pretend to fight them. Alternatively you might be using them as characters in a story instead.

Riding a bike is playing with a toy. Just because I reach the end of the street, find a dead end and have to start over doesn't mean I'm playing a game.

I only read the PS bit. Illustration, stories and concept art are only required for toys. Games don't have to have any of those, toys do. Excluding board games, games never needed any of those things until the digital age.

You should study game making instead of wasting your time learing how to paint pictures and making digital clay models.

Pyro as Bill said: Euphoria14 said: I see you've conveniently skipped my solitaire point. Honestly I got confused at ninja turtles. Your computer isn't a toy, it could be but in this situation it's like the playroom. You go into your playroom and pick up your puzzle toy. You can make games out of your ninja turtle toys if you want. You could invite someone over and pretend to fight them. Alternatively you might be using them as characters in a story instead. Riding a bike is playing with a toy. Just because I reach the end of the street, find a dead end and have to start over doesn't mean I'm playing a game.

Horrible comparison. The point and purpose of playing solitaire differs greatly to that of a bike.

Ninja Turtle point falls in line with what I just said. Replace bike with TMNT.

Euphoria, this guy is incapable of admitting he's wrong, if you prove him wrong he'll either ignore you or come out with something totally irrelevent.

Haven't you got a toy you should be playing with?

If you're going to play the game you need to answer my last question.

When does a toy become a game?

Rhetoric and circular logic, adaptation of concepts to fill your own personal dogmas and attempting to instill a definition that's well beyond the grasp of one concept into another while completely ignoring the plethora of examples given to you in this thread. Don't mind me if I don't find anything constructive, logical or even reasonable in your "arguments".

That you manage to use a single example and then split it in the same category of being both a toy and a game whenever you see fit it's like someone would come up and say that an Hemoglobin is an inorganic molecule, just because it has a ferrous center. You should try that in a biological discussion once.

A person who makes games is a game artist.

A person who storyboards is creating visual story archs for film or books either from a referenced book or their own imagination. Comic book artists do this. Videogames today use storyboarding for the same reasons film, animatiors and comic book directors use them.

A concept artist as per illustration doesn't focus on toys, even though they can create toy ideas (not by profession). I think what you're focusing on is a industrial designer. Industrial designers create concepts for actual tangible objects. Concept Artists don't by illustration standards. Industrial designers create toys. Toys are meant for children in their individual development.

The defitiontion of a Gamer is here. It is official a definition in the dictionary. Here is one officially from Merriam-Webster.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gamer