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Forums - Gaming Discussion - I figured it out. The hardcore love toys and stories, casuals love games.

miz1q2w3e said:

I see what the OP was trying to say, he just made a lot mistakes getting his points accross.

He's saying the quote unquote hardcore love single player experiences and games with big stories and cinematics (wrongfully assuming that equates to toys), while casual love "actual games" (whatever that means).

To the OP I say, games like Donkey Kong and SMB are certainly not played for their stories, yet they attract some of the most hardcore players around (how many shiny gold medals do you have in Donkey Kong CR?). Heck, even super casual games like bejeweled are played "hardcore" by some people like this guy.

Also multiplayer does not equal casual either. Games like Halo and CoD are played mainly for their multiplayer, Counter Strike also comes to mind. I saw plenty of hardcore MKWii players online back when I used to play, online fighting games too...

Gaming media may rate "hardcore" games higher due to their higher precieved value (aka production values, see uncharted 2), but that doesn't mean only a set group of people enjoy only one or the other. I know a lot of casual gamers who onloy play games you consider hardcore and vice versa. It's all in how you play the game.

There is no such thing as a casual or hardcore game in the first place. You can play any game hardcore or casually. If you play WiiSports everyday, then you play it hardcore, if you play Halo once every few weeks, you play it casually. Now there are games that are more "accesible" like some 2d platformers, COD, dance games, puzzle, etc. then there are more complex, 3d platformers, Bioshock, RPGs, Strategy Western or Japanese. most fighting games



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oniyide said:

There is no such thing as a casual or hardcore game in the first place. You can play any game hardcore or casually. If you play WiiSports everyday, then you play it hardcore, if you play Halo once every few weeks, you play it casually. Now there are games that are more "accesible" like some 2d platformers, COD, dance games, puzzle, etc. then there are more complex, 3d platformers, Bioshock, RPGs, Strategy Western or Japanese. most fighting games

I agree :)



This topic is a semantic farce.

Stop replying. There's no reason to argue with this guy. You might as well argue with someone who says lemons are sweet. You know they're sour, but you'll go blue in the face arguing and he'll never change his mind. He's either a troll who thinks it's funny to piss you off, or he's the type of person that won't reassess his stance on a subject no matter how wrong he's been proven because he's stubborn or too proud to admit an error.

Don't waste your breath, or in this cause your finger muscles. The topic of this thread is just plain stupid.



kain_kusanagi said:
This topic is a semantic farce.

Stop replying. There's no reason to argue with this guy. You might as well argue with someone who says lemons are sweet. You know they're sour, but you'll go blue in the face arguing and he'll never change his mind. He's either a troll who thinks it's funny to piss you off, or he's the type of person that won't reassess his stance on a subject no matter how wrong he's been proven because he's stubborn or too proud to admit an error.

Don't waste your breath, or in this cause your finger muscles. The topic of this thread is just plan stupid.

^^ This... Only not so mean



kain_kusanagi said:

...


Don't waste your breath, or in this cause your finger muscles. The topic of this thread is just plain stupid.


True, but apart from OP, some of the thoughts expressed in the thread are interesting. I'm enjoying it for what other people are writing.



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miz1q2w3e said:
ctalkeb said:
miz1q2w3e said:

Also, they tend to have a objective/misson a player must reach/accomplish. Toys don't have that

I don't think having an objective is really necessary to be a game, unless "keeping the game going" or "not losing" are possible objectives.

Yes. Tetris.


Puzzles, yeah. I'd also say tabletop RPGs (where you can do pretty much whatever you want, while still playing from a ruleset) and fighting/driving games (that may have story modes, but the true "objective" is simply to get better at the game).



miz1q2w3e said:
Pyro as Bill said:
miz1q2w3e said:

I think it's a game where the objective is to build and design a city, maintain it, and ensure its survival, along the way facing natural disasters as well as monsters...etc (aka enemies)

I think there's one pretty big thing you're missing here and that even though a game may appear to be just single player, the player actually faces the in-game AI as well as the challenge of the game's level design,puzzles...etc

What do you think it is?

Doesn't matter what I think.

Will Wright says it's a toy.

A quote on the matter: "SimCity inspired a new genre of video games. "Software toys" that were open-ended with no set objective were developed trying to duplicate SimCity's success" - - - - But I say it does have an objective and you can fail at it.

Wikipedia says: "SimCity is a critically acclaimed city-building simulation video game", guess which definition I trust more... So it doesn't really matter what the creator of the game says. He didn't create the english language, nor does he appear to be any good at comprehending it.

I think he just wanted to create some buzz for his game by saying something controversial like that. Peter Molyneux anyone?

I proposed this "spectrum of play" model to handle the spectrum of what we have in terms of videogames (interactive) from toys to interactive fiction. It can be found here, in my Goes to 11 videogame site blog.  To save people clicking I will posted it verbatum below.  I hope will lend some clarity, and get modified as needed.  Onto the article:

http://goes-to-11.blogspot.com/2010/04/commentary-spectrum-of-play-from-toys.html

SATURDAY, APRIL 24, 2010

Commentary: Spectrum of Play, from Toys to Interactive Fiction

The use of story and what is or is not a game, has been debated on various forums on the Internet. In order to address this debate, I figured I would look at what I see as a spectrum of play and forms of entertainment. 

I see the spectrum going as follows (open-endedness vs narrative driven or structureness):
1. Toys and simulators (vehicle and world simulators). These are things you play with with no point in mind. You have a degree of control over them, and make them do what you want. These aren't too frequent in videogames although something like Noby Noby Boy would likely fit here. If a game comes with a development language also, to create content in a very open way, it could be considered part of this also, like something like Kodu. I would put Sony Home here (excluding the in world games), as is Second Life. Will Wright specializes in these with his Sim series. On the other side of this would be a program like Microsoft's Flight Simulator.

2. 4X and strategic world simulations (and god games): These games are like Civilization (4x: Explore, expand, exploit, exterminate), or a business simulation like Railroad Tycoon. In these, a player controls a world, like in the Sim series, but use strategic to achieve goals set by the game.

3. Sports and boardgames. These are competitive ventures, where the object is to use the play area to defeat an opponent. The approach is fairly wide open, but the goals are set. Not as open as sandbox games, but still more open than other formats of play. Chess would fit here, as would RTS (and turn-based RPGs), or sports games, or games like Settlers of Catan. Fighting games definitely belong here to, as do driving games, and also multiplayer FPS. The focus here is player vs player, and players can continue to evolve new strategies.

4. Sandbox games. These are open play areas, aka a sandbox, but will have puzzles or other challenges in them. Sandbox can fit Grand Theft Auto or Crackdown or inFamous. The former ends up likely having more story put on top, while the later gravitates towards the toys/puzzle category. Western RPGs can fit here also, depending on the open-endedness (and how dynamic the world is). I would say LittleBigPlanet may fit here actually, or anything with a level editor for it. World of Warcraft likely fits here also, or other online RPGs with a world that dynamically changes. In short, the game world is open, and there are structured missions in them, including free roaming openness. 

5. Puzzles/classic arcade games. These are like toys, but are goal driven, in that you need to get the toy to a certain state. Tetris can be seen as fitting into this. Classic arcade games like Asteroids and Space Invaders would fit into this here also, as do games on the puzzle side like Tetris or Bejeweled. Rather than solve problems, you continue to play at them. These games lack the open-world structure to them seen in sandbox games.

6. JRPGs and single-player part of FPS titles. These are fairly linear in nature, but some can be less linear for players on a whole, and can involve some alternate paths.

7. Post-arcade console action-adventure games, with endings and levels. Sonic, Mario, Zelda, and others that we know, fit here. The games have endings, and don't go on indefinitely. This is the classic videogame as we know it.

8. Adventure games and interactive fiction. These are very strict in how they are laid out and linear in nature. Text adventures fit into this, as does a game like Myst, and the graphic adventures of Lucas Arts. And on the more strict end, a game like Heavy Rain would fit into this also. For individuals heavily gravitating toward story and character, this is a place they would consider this the best form of play. I would also count Uncharted in here also (single player).



miz1q2w3e said:
ctalkeb said:
miz1q2w3e said:

Also, they tend to have a objective/misson a player must reach/accomplish. Toys don't have that

I don't think having an objective is really necessary to be a game, unless "keeping the game going" or "not losing" are possible objectives.

Yes. Tetris.

A norm for arcade coin-op games, prior to Double Dragon, were to have the goal of keeping on going and not dying.  Some people would push so far, they would hit killscreens in notable arcade games.

Edit:

Rather than post another post, I will add (on a tangent) that all forms of electronic play today, from toys to interactive fiction, get lumped under the category "video games".



while I guess you cracked the code.

And p.s. I thought you were talking about dildo's or something.



And that's the only thing I need is *this*. I don't need this or this. Just this PS4... And this gaming PC. - The PS4 and the Gaming PC and that's all I need... And this Xbox 360. - The PS4, the Gaming PC, and the Xbox 360, and that's all I need... And these PS3's. - The PS4, and these PS3's, and the Gaming PC, and the Xbox 360... And this Nintendo DS. - The PS4, this Xbox 360, and the Gaming PC, and the PS3's, and that's all *I* need. And that's *all* I need too. I don't need one other thing, not one... I need this. - The Gaming PC and PS4, and Xbox 360, and thePS3's . Well what are you looking at? What do you think I'm some kind of a jerk or something! - And this. That's all I need.

Obligatory dick measuring Gaming Laptop Specs: Sager NP8270-GTX: 17.3" FULL HD (1920X1080) LED Matte LC, nVIDIA GeForce GTX 780M, Intel Core i7-4700MQ, 16GB (2x8GB) DDR3, 750GB SATA II 3GB/s 7,200 RPM Hard Drive

Pyro as Bill said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
Pyro as Bill said:
miz1q2w3e said:
^^It just feels like you're talking random now - - - I don't even know how to respond to that

Oh well, I tried


Is Sim City a toy or a game?


Sim City is a simulation of creating a city.


Just as a Batman doll, a car, some decorated cardboard and a little imagination is a simulation of the Batman Universe.

Adults have little imagination so they need toy makers to recreate a digital Gotham City with a digital Batman doll and call it a game. 


This is definitely 100% trolling. Hilarious.  Im done with this thread.