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Forums - Politics Discussion - Wall Street Protests

MDMAniac said:

Actually I have been in Vietnam and liked the country. Very beautiful. It's quite a shame French/US/Australian forces were withdrawn back then from there while US was actually winning over the territories.

You talk like you know Vietnam. Sure, it's great when you go there as a tourist and spending money. The same as anywhere, seeing through the eyes of a tourist, you only see the pretty part.

The Vietnam war was unwinable. But I won't bother you with a history lesson since you seem to know it all.



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deskpro2k3 said:

 

So this guy wants us to be governed by a supercomputer like in Appleseed?



kingofwale said:
Lostplanet22 said:
kingofwale said:

one of the most senseless protests of all time, no fixed agenda or goal, no organizations, no plan going forward.

people cry about police brutality, why not go to a third world countries and actually learn what the word means. the same goes for 'poverty in US', most second or third world people simply laugh at us for claiming so, this is even factoring in PPP (if you don't know what PPP is, you shouldn't be making such claims)

What does PPP mean anyway when USA has the highest percentage of people living in poverty of ALL Western developped countries (yes worse than bankrupt Greece).   More than 16% or 1 on every 6 citizens live in poverty and the number is still growing and is expected to be close to 20% in 2014-2015.  Around 15 million children in USA don't know if they will get a decent meal today and you come up with something like PPP ...that's ridiculous;.

lol, I didn't come up with PPP, although I wish I did, great concept, it's Purchasing Power Parity.

just like I described, to call the people in US "living in poverty" is becoming the laughing stock of all from second and third world countries. Do you know the "definition" of poverty in the US?

learn to put things into prespective.

+1, poverty in US is considered middle class in less developed countries.

However when put into perspective the class difference in the US you can see why people would be pissed off and in apparent poverty, sure it could be worse had they lived elsewhere, but in US they consider themselves poor.



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No real coherent message. They really should be protesting about current Government policies. All I have to say is a free market society works the best for equal opportunity. Greed can play a role in it, but I would much rather have some greedy bankers with this system, than a marxist system where there is no incentive to invest and its all about equal "distribution" to everyone. No real freedom in a marxist society.




Allfreedom99 said:
No real coherent message. They really should be protesting about current Government policies. All I have to say is a free market society works the best for equal opportunity. Greed can play a role in it, but I would much rather have some greedy bankers with this system, than a marxist system where there is no incentive to invest and its all about equal "distribution" to everyone. No real freedom in a marxist society.


lol, Marxist system is the definition of "greed", corruption in the government will breed fat, greedy dictator.


There is a reason why all communist countries failed. (and if you disagree, you can always migrate to those countries right now, I'm sure it can't be as hard as those trying to get into the US)



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Galaki said:

The Vietnam war was unwinable. But I won't bother you with a history lesson since you seem to know it all.


Orly. Tet offensive was one dismal failure, the vietcong was utterly crashed, and the vietnamese were being killed like rats. Hell they even lived in rat holes. And still America run scared away, not because of having just a few dozen thousands of KIA there, but because of some local psychos shooted down for good.

Also, this is not just my knowledge of the history, it's teh history itself.



MDMAniac said:
A sentence should've been given to those bummers in the streets, not a song.


This song was written independently and before the protests began. While I don't agree with your abrassiveness on the topic, I do somewhat agree with your point, however. No one is responsible for you except for you. No one should have to "share the wealth". These people blame the corporations, but the blame is actually on the US government.

Do you blame the dog from getting out of the house and biting someone, or the idiot that opened the door to let the dog out? The US gov't over the past 40 years removed all the regulations set in place to keep businesses in line, to hold them accountable, so things like what has transpired in the past decade couldn't happen. Am I mad that big banks got bailouts? Sure, but who GAVE them the bailouts? The US Government, of course. The banks in trouble should have failed and shut their doors forever.

Also, on the topic of being self-reliant, the US further bankrupted itself in handing out billions in foreign aid. Funny how right after receiving a few billion in US dollars, Pakistan decided to bite the hand that feeds them. Let them eat sand.  Money collected from taxpayers should be used for the citizens themselves.

I agree with the protest in the sense of being angry with the state of things, but the focus of anger is misguided. Shouting and marching will not get the big corporations to do anything. Tearing this government to the ground and rebuilding it from scratch is the only way to fix the corruption and force all businesses to do right by the people. Which of course, is the point of the song in the OP (which was written by yours truly).

Yes, there is a lot worse poverty in the world, people have no food, no clothing, no shelter in some countries.  That said, comparatively to major powers, the poverty rate has dramatically increased in the US.

Again, I agree that the lack of a united goal makes this protest seem futile, as does the focus of their anger. Yet, it could start the groundwork for a movement strong enough to topple the current government and allow for a new one to begin, which is much needed. As stated in the Declaration of Independence:

"But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."



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kingofwale said:
Lostplanet22 said:
kingofwale said:

one of the most senseless protests of all time, no fixed agenda or goal, no organizations, no plan going forward.

people cry about police brutality, why not go to a third world countries and actually learn what the word means. the same goes for 'poverty in US', most second or third world people simply laugh at us for claiming so, this is even factoring in PPP (if you don't know what PPP is, you shouldn't be making such claims)

What does PPP mean anyway when USA has the highest percentage of people living in poverty of ALL Western developped countries (yes worse than bankrupt Greece).   More than 16% or 1 on every 6 citizens live in poverty and the number is still growing and is expected to be close to 20% in 2014-2015.  Around 15 million children in USA don't know if they will get a decent meal today and you come up with something like PPP ...that's ridiculous;.

lol, I didn't come up with PPP, although I wish I did, great concept, it's Purchasing Power Parity.

just like I described, to call the people in US "living in poverty" is becoming the laughing stock of all from second and third world countries. Do you know the "definition" of poverty in the US?

learn to put things into prespective.


Middle Class and Poverty have a different meaning in each country.

Right nowthe people considered poor in the USA are people with an anual income of less than $22,350 USD. That's not poor in most of the rest of the world!!!

In Mexico a poor is vulnerable ecause of income (can't afford every day living) and because of services (i.e. a person that didn't went to school, doesn't has any social security, doesn't has acces to potable water, without acces to food, doesn't has where to live.). To be considered poor in Mexico someone most have a very little income (about $3000 USD by year) plus not have acces to one of the services. By this standards almost noone will be considered poor in the US.

So, its a falacy to compare the levels of "poverty" in the us, with the level of poverty in other parts of the world.

 

I got quite confused writing this post, sorry if it doesn't make sense in English.




kingofwale said:
Allfreedom99 said:
No real coherent message. They really should be protesting about current Government policies. All I have to say is a free market society works the best for equal opportunity. Greed can play a role in it, but I would much rather have some greedy bankers with this system, than a marxist system where there is no incentive to invest and its all about equal "distribution" to everyone. No real freedom in a marxist society.


lol, Marxist system is the definition of "greed", corruption in the government will breed fat, greedy dictator.


There is a reason why all communist countries failed. (and if you disagree, you can always migrate to those countries right now, I'm sure it can't be as hard as those trying to get into the US)

trust me, I agree. I was just trying to make a point that there will always be some form of greed in any form of society. Thats human nature. Some people in this thread sound like they want a more "fair" society with redistribution. My definition of a "Fair" society is one that allows all people to have equal opportunity in the economy, not to sit on their butt at home and collect a check from the government while others work.




kingofwale said:

lol, Marxist system is the definition of "greed", corruption in the government will breed fat, greedy dictator.


Just for clarity, the corruption is not a key differentiating factor here, neither Stalin nor Mao used to swim in golden pools and they were not exactly obsessed with living in luxury. What's much more important is that it's just counter-natural for human being to value social good more than individual gains, we are not some brainwashed social insects like ants, we're healthy individuals. Surely, there is a place for altruism in nature, but note that altruistic behavior is for loosers anyways, such alturistic beings exists only to support the main population. And capitalism is the most effective way of putting our individualism to work.