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Forums - Politics - Wall Street Protests

Raze said:
Kasz216 said:
Raze said:
Kasz216 said:
Raze said:
Kasz216 said:
Basically every single article i've read on brutality has basically been proven false by bothering to check another news sites articles.

So i'm extremely wary of any claims of brutality.


Hope you're not reference checking with Fox.

Here, check this out, this is raw unedited footage from one of the protests. The truth is right in front of you.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eU9Dx0x9h4A

No largely CNN and BBC.

As for that video, uh it's not raw unedited footage.  It's been edited, you'll notice that it starts well into the police aprhending her and doesn't mention WHY she was being arrested.

Funny accusations though coming from soemone being force fed strategically edited videos youtube videos.

It's basic viral campaigning.

Provoke the shit out of the cops and then when they need to use force to do their jobs, only show that part and ignore everything leading up to it.

It's literally one of the oldest propaganda tricks in the world.   Which is why when you bother to read third party accounts of the events not tied to people directly into the movement, you see why more often then not force was justified.

 

For example the guy who got punched by a cop... nobody from the occupy movement bothers to mention that the guy tried to elbow the cop in the face first, the cop got knocked down and then sprayed with liquid that could be anything from water to a dangerous chemical compound...

THEN he punched the guy after he lunged toward him... yet all you see is the punch for some reason? 

Yeah, that's not edited footage at all.

 

For every one legitamite case there are something like 30 manufactured cases... that goes for any protest.

Did you even watch the video? It starts off earlier than that, with protestors being arrested,

That was exactly my point.  It starts with the protesters being arrested.

AKA everything before that is ignored.

The Pepper Spray case by the way is the one proper incident to be upset.

It's the only one i've seen of someone complaining.

Outside that, if you aren't listening to the police and are getting people in the way "IE corraled" the cops are going to force you back with force, with good reason... and when being outnumber by 10 times or more you can damn well bet they're going to put expiedence over gentleness because if the protesters turn things violent they're fucked doing things the slow way.

Simple moral of the story?  When the police say move back, you move back quickly and orderly so you aren't hindering other peoples way.

I've been a part of more then one protest and I know what makes them orderly and what makes them violent.  Even with some of the worst police out there, it's damn hard to get yourself in a physical altercation that's unfair to you unless your activly trying for that.

That's where we differentiate, I suppose.  You seem to think that violence begins with the protesters, I see it as beginning with the police. Of course, to be entirely honest, I see protesting as a giant waste of time, and believe that if they want the CEOs attention, they'll follow them to their house and get their address and post it online for the world to know. Because you never know what maniac will go vigilante and hunt the greedy bastard down. Either way, it'll seriously diminish the CEOs quality of life, making them quicker to react and more willing to listen.  >=)

I support the movement and anger of the OWS protest, but this hippie/peace-loving crap will accomplish nothing.

 

If the violence begins with the police, why is it only the protests of the hard-left that seem to have problems with police brutality? Why do these professional protestors always seem to get abused by the police in every country they go to and in every protest they take part in? Why are the vast majority of videos posted begin after the arrest has began? If they had done nothing to provoke the incident wouldn't the video leading up to the arrest be very important?

 

On the topic of how to get a CEO's attention ... The correct approach is to create a meaningful boycott of the products they produce. CEO`s "live and die" based on 1% to 2% of corporate performance in most public companies. If a boycott becomes significant enough that corporate revenues are 2% below forecasts, and their profit is also down by a similar percentage, the CEO will try to resolve the issue before it becomes bigger to save their own ass.

Threatening violence, or acting in a violent way, just ensures that the average person (who you need to be successful) thinks of your movement as a bunch of crazy violent extremists.



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kingofwale said:

one of the most senseless protests of all time, no fixed agenda or goal, no organizations, no plan going forward.

people cry about police brutality, why not go to a third world countries and actually learn what the word means. the same goes for 'poverty in US', most second or third world people simply laugh at us for claiming so, this is even factoring in PPP (if you don't know what PPP is, you shouldn't be making such claims)


they call poverty in US as they are US citizen and US is a wealthy state

why should they be comparing themselves to third world countries?



Raze said:
Kasz216 said:
Raze said:
Kasz216 said:
Raze said:
Kasz216 said:
Basically every single article i've read on brutality has basically been proven false by bothering to check another news sites articles.

So i'm extremely wary of any claims of brutality.


Hope you're not reference checking with Fox.

Here, check this out, this is raw unedited footage from one of the protests. The truth is right in front of you.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eU9Dx0x9h4A

No largely CNN and BBC.

As for that video, uh it's not raw unedited footage.  It's been edited, you'll notice that it starts well into the police aprhending her and doesn't mention WHY she was being arrested.

Funny accusations though coming from soemone being force fed strategically edited videos youtube videos.

It's basic viral campaigning.

Provoke the shit out of the cops and then when they need to use force to do their jobs, only show that part and ignore everything leading up to it.

It's literally one of the oldest propaganda tricks in the world.   Which is why when you bother to read third party accounts of the events not tied to people directly into the movement, you see why more often then not force was justified.

 

For example the guy who got punched by a cop... nobody from the occupy movement bothers to mention that the guy tried to elbow the cop in the face first, the cop got knocked down and then sprayed with liquid that could be anything from water to a dangerous chemical compound...

THEN he punched the guy after he lunged toward him... yet all you see is the punch for some reason? 

Yeah, that's not edited footage at all.

 

For every one legitamite case there are something like 30 manufactured cases... that goes for any protest.

Did you even watch the video? It starts off earlier than that, with protestors being arrested,

That was exactly my point.  It starts with the protesters being arrested.

AKA everything before that is ignored.

The Pepper Spray case by the way is the one proper incident to be upset.

It's the only one i've seen of someone complaining.

Outside that, if you aren't listening to the police and are getting people in the way "IE corraled" the cops are going to force you back with force, with good reason... and when being outnumber by 10 times or more you can damn well bet they're going to put expiedence over gentleness because if the protesters turn things violent they're fucked doing things the slow way.

Simple moral of the story?  When the police say move back, you move back quickly and orderly so you aren't hindering other peoples way.

I've been a part of more then one protest and I know what makes them orderly and what makes them violent.  Even with some of the worst police out there, it's damn hard to get yourself in a physical altercation that's unfair to you unless your activly trying for that.

That's where we differentiate, I suppose.  You seem to think that violence begins with the protesters, I see it as beginning with the police. Of course, to be entirely honest, I see protesting as a giant waste of time, and believe that if they want the CEOs attention, they'll follow them to their house and get their address and post it online for the world to know. Because you never know what maniac will go vigilante and hunt the greedy bastard down. Either way, it'll seriously diminish the CEOs quality of life, making them quicker to react and more willing to listen.  >=)

I support the movement and anger of the OWS protest, but this hippie/peace-loving crap will accomplish nothing.

 


I find it interesting that you basically say you think the protesters aren't the violent ones (even though like squirrel said its only their protests...)

THEN post a solution that has implied violence by those upset with the protesters.

I do agree the protests are a waste of time though... you know who had a better idea?

Internet Billionaire and Democrat Mark Cuban.

He agrees with the occupy Wallstreet movement but things they're acting poorly.

As for a solution... he actually agrees with me.

"If OWS really wants to change corporate structure and impact the economy, talk to shareholders. Talk to your parents, uncles/aunts, cousins, friends who own shares of stocks either directly or indirectly and have them state loudly and clearly that they would rather have a higher Price to Earnings Ratio and even a lower stock price than have their TAXES increase in order to support all the people laid off from their jobs in the name of shareholders !  

You might even consider buying a share of stock. Just 1. Maybe you can all pitch in and then go to a shareholders meeting and let them know how you feel about the best interests of shareholders."

http://blogmaverick.com/2011/10/14/my-soapbox-advice-to-the-ows-movement-and-then-some/

Corporations are a reflection of primarily it's consumers and secondairly it's shareholders.



snakenobi said:
kingofwale said:

one of the most senseless protests of all time, no fixed agenda or goal, no organizations, no plan going forward.

people cry about police brutality, why not go to a third world countries and actually learn what the word means. the same goes for 'poverty in US', most second or third world people simply laugh at us for claiming so, this is even factoring in PPP (if you don't know what PPP is, you shouldn't be making such claims)


they call poverty in US as they are US citizen and US is a wealthy state

why should they be comparing themselves to third world countries?

Because generally that's how the economy works... you can either grow it quickly unevenly, or grow it slowley evenly (or even have it stop!).


It doesn't need to be such a dichotomy that your either the USA or a thrid would country.... HOWEVER, more often then not the choice for the poor is between having a higher amount of money or a higher share of money.

You have to decide if you'd rather live in a society where you can afford 12 videogames a year and some rich CEO has a flying Yacht he can fly to the moon... or if you can afford 10 videogames a year and some CEO can afford 12 videogames a year.

I can understand the viewpoint of a lot of people, but i can't understand the viewpoint of someone who intentionally hurts their own standard of living soley to hurt the standard of living of someone they don't know.



Raze said:

That's where we differentiate, I suppose.  You seem to think that violence begins with the protesters, I see it as beginning with the police. Of course, to be entirely honest, I see protesting as a giant waste of time, and believe that if they want the CEOs attention, they'll follow them to their house and get their address and post it online for the world to know. Because you never know what maniac will go vigilante and hunt the greedy bastard down. Either way, it'll seriously diminish the CEOs quality of life, making them quicker to react and more willing to listen.  >=)

I support the movement and anger of the OWS protest, but this hippie/peace-loving crap will accomplish nothing.

 

Well then, take heart, little fella. Doug Schoen polled some OWS protesters and found that one-third of them are as in favor of using violence as you are.



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badgenome said:
Raze said:

That's where we differentiate, I suppose.  You seem to think that violence begins with the protesters, I see it as beginning with the police. Of course, to be entirely honest, I see protesting as a giant waste of time, and believe that if they want the CEOs attention, they'll follow them to their house and get their address and post it online for the world to know. Because you never know what maniac will go vigilante and hunt the greedy bastard down. Either way, it'll seriously diminish the CEOs quality of life, making them quicker to react and more willing to listen.  >=)

I support the movement and anger of the OWS protest, but this hippie/peace-loving crap will accomplish nothing.

 

Well then, take heart, little fella. Doug Schoen polled some OWS protesters and found that one-third of them are as in favor of using violence as you are.

=D Little fella? I was born in the 70s and I'm over 6'2

Let me clarify, I'm saying that peaceful protests accomplish nothing, especially when you're yelling at a bunch of mostly-soundproofed buildings.

@Kas - Interesting article, my solution is a complete revamp of the US gov't. That's the REAL source. Without the regulations from long ago in place, the big businessmen have nothing keeping them in line. Between the worthless oil wars, massive bailouts, freely giving billions in international aid, protecting bigwigs from prosecution, I feel justified in saying that the US government has failed the people, and that it's time to start anew.

I'm not calling for people to go start killing cops or CEOs, I'm calling for people to do something significant, instead of meditating in a park.

Between active , reserved and retired military, government milita forces and local police throughout the US, the combined amount equals to less than 1% of the US population. The US unemployment rate is 9% of the population. If HALF of the unemployed revolted, all of the defensive forces would be outnumbered by over 4 to 1. Combine that with the concept that a good portion of the  military - active, reserved and retired, would not side with the governing powers in case of a revolution or civil war.

What I'm saying is - be prepared. I can see the fuse is lit, doesn't take a clairvoyant to see that.

 

 



The Carnival of Shadows - Folk Punk from Asbury Park, New Jersey

http://www.thecarnivalofshadows.com 


I'm not even sure why they're protesting :(



Raze said:
badgenome said:

Well then, take heart, little fella. Doug Schoen polled some OWS protesters and found that one-third of them are as in favor of using violence as you are.

=D Little fella? I was born in the 70s and I'm over 6'2

Let me clarify, I'm saying that peaceful protests accomplish nothing, especially when you're yelling at a bunch of mostly-soundproofed buildings.

 

Yes, you called for violence and/or the threat of violence. I think we're pretty clear on that. My mistake on your age. Based on your infantile view of how the world works, I was hoping you were about half my age, not older than me.

It's fairly hilarious that you blame all this on some mythical deregulation when the regulatory apparatus is larger than ever. It grew by almost70% both in terms of budget and number of employees under Bush alone. If there is a regulatory problem, it's from bad regulation or inept enforcement, not from too little. However, the real culprit here has been the federal government pushing for home ownership by people who simply couldn't afford to own homes with initiatives like the Community Reinvestment Act, and the federal reserve under Greenspan pushing the interest rate to historic lows to compensate for the bursting tech bubble. So the government strongarms banks to lend money to people who weren't good for it, and then when the accumulation of debt at all levels of the economy causes a collapse, the same assholes who insisted that banks loan to these people to begin with start shrieking about "predatory lending". I know it's all very convenient to blame this on some amorphous "greed", and that makes a great topic for lame little punk song, but the whole situation is yet another example of the road to economic hell being paved with good intentions.



silicon said:
I'm not even sure why they're protesting :(

Neither are they.



Occupy Wall Street protesters said yesterday that packs of brazen crooks within their ranks have been robbing their fellow demonstrators blind, making off with pricey cameras, phones and laptops -- and even a hefty bundle of donated cash and food.

“Stealing is our biggest problem at the moment,” said Nan Terrie, 18, a kitchen and legal-team volunteer from Fort Lauderdale.

“I had my Mac stolen -- that was like $5,500. Every night, something else is gone. Last night, our entire [kitchen] budget for the day was stolen, so the first thing I had to do was . . . get the message out to our supporters that we needed food!”

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/criminal_occupation_oh3CnKANUqYHrGPCaZaLRK#ixzz1bFJlZDia

How I am not surprised that there biggest problem is theft from fellow protestors.