They can't fix prostate cancer.

Above: still the best game of the year.
GDP=Consumption Spending.
Government consumption/spending=Consumption/Spending
*pats hands*
We have plenty of credit flowing around (due to the Fed's infusion of it into the banks and the increased spending by American consumers). Ending the tax cuts for the rich won't kill investment.
If you don't want to end the tax cuts for the rich in return for increased spending, at least do it in return for a larger tax cut for the lower and middle class.
Keep tax cuts for the poor and middle class, end the Bush tax cuts, increase spending, rebuild our infrastructure (has to be done anyway, might as well use this as an opportunity), impose modest reformations on Medicare and Medicaid and BOOM! You fucking fix the economy, and solve America's long and short term debt problems.


| Akvod said: GDP=Consumption Spending. Government consumption/spending=Consumption/Spending *pats hands* We have plenty of credit flowing around (due to the Fed's infusion of it into the banks and the increased spending by American consumers). Ending the tax cuts for the rich won't kill investment. If you don't want to end the tax cuts for the rich in return for increased spending, at least do it in return for a larger tax cut for the lower and middle class. Keep tax cuts for the poor and middle class, end the Bush tax cuts, increase spending, rebuild our infrastructure (has to be done anyway, might as well use this as an opportunity), impose modest reformations on Medicare and Medicaid and BOOM! You fucking fix the economy, and solve America's long and short term debt problems. |
51% of Americans paid no taxes last year. Exactly how much more should you lower taxes on them?
Back from the dead, I'm afraid.
mrstickball said:
With absolute anarchy? No, likely not. With very minimal government to ensure that contracts are upheld, and that no one can violate the personhood or property of another? Likely, yes. In our current society, many bad behaviors are incentivized by government charity, regulations, and laws. This causes people to engage in bad behaviors as they do not receive the recompense for their actions. The problem is that unless Jesus comes back to earth, we are going to have to deal with many of the unfortunate things you mentioned - teen pregnancy, drug usage, poverty, questionable TV content, unemployment and so on. But if we can remove government incentivization of activities and let morality rule the day (by proving the correlation between bad behaviors and bad results), many of these objectionable things can be mitigated. For example, if there is a smaller safety net that the government controls, people will likely take more precautions in their life to ensure they do not go broke and have nowhere to turn to. Likewise, poverty in America is the same way: Johnson started the War on Poverty in the mid-60s, yet today our unemployment and poverty metrics are no better than they were 50 years ago, and income inequality has gone up not down. Such statistics should be a repudiation of government attempts to assuade the populace into doing, acting, feeling, believing or behaving the way government desires it to go. Currently, more federal tax dollars are spent being transferred from one person to another via subsidies, tax credits, welfare, social security, medicare/medicaid than all other federal spending combined. Yet despite this, we are arguably worse off than we were with less and less monies being transferred from one part of society to the other.
Therefore, in my view, removing government assistance is the most desirable option. With the onus being on individuals, they can better regulate and adhere to their moral standards and concience as opposed to the body politic, which is well meaning but has a horrible track record in practical laws and amendments benefitting those in poverty. Let me give some examples:
These are just a few points. For social issues, one could note that the decriminalization of all drugs in portugal, along with a substence abuse treatment plan has yielded spectacular results for hard drug users. In just 5 years, hard drug usage has dropped between 60-80% among all hard drugs. Yet again, its repudiation that greater government control over peoples lives - both economic and personal - yield positive results for the nation. That is why I believe that less government is better. I am not an anarchist, as I do strongly believe that there must be a system of mediation between two parties to discern contracts and ensure the protection of life and property. However, time and time again, we see that the most beneficial system is that of personal, not public, responsibility - the greater we take responsibility in our own lives, the better we develop and provide a better world to live in. |
Social Security only Taxes the first $90,000 $106,000, so not all money earned is taxed for Social Security. And the Total tax rate is 10.4%, 6.2 for the employer, 4.2 for the employee
And I refuse to believe that comparitive Health Insurance for people that need Medicare is $4900, my grandfathers supplemental insurance is $8K a year, full coverage for him would Total close $30K. For the average healthy person in their 30s or 40s, yes $4900 is probably plenty, but most people at Medicare age arent.
Minor corrections
mrstickball said:
Ah, but you assume that success of socialized programs is a repudiation if the same said countries had a free-market system for the same social services or economies. Problem is, we do not know the answer to that in said European countries. Furthermore, we assume that said systems can sustain themselves indefinitely which may or may not be the case - given the volatility in Europe, one may wonder if said levels of social services will last the next 20, 30, or 40 years. The issue with the argument is that its impossible to show that the European system is even optimal for European societies. One could look at examples of deregulation in very socialist European countries as proofs that there may be positive results in degrulation and freer markets. For example, the Dutch have arguably the most free job market in Europe and is cited to be generally as free as the United States. The result? One of the lowest rates of unemployment in Europe. Likewise, the lowest unemployment rate in Europe comes from the most economically free country in Europe - Switzerland. Take the time to look up economic freedom on Heritage's Index to see how European countries stack up. You'll be surprised. |
If you actually look on that site at the Netherlands individual rankings you will see that they get marked down heavily for 'Government Spending', they also have approximately ~40% of GDP as tax revenue. They also tax and spend like Denmark, Norway, Finland etc. Also not all of Europe is volatile - Denmark, Sweden, Finland and Norway are all solid as rocks.
Also I find it somewhat odd that you (and Happy) assume the failures in the US system are entirely due to errors in the fundamental ideas, but the successes with the same sorts of systems in European countries have absolutely nothing to do with the fundamental ideas and are entirely circumstantial.
@Happy. You see I disagree with the entire 'negative consequences typically associated with these programs' part. That is essentially only looking at the USA, where the programs haven't been a grand success, and ignoring the many countries in the world that have implemented social programs succesfully.

mrstickball said:
Ah, but you assume that success of socialized programs is a repudiation if the same said countries had a free-market system for the same social services or economies. Problem is, we do not know the answer to that in said European countries. Furthermore, we assume that said systems can sustain themselves indefinitely which may or may not be the case - given the volatility in Europe, one may wonder if said levels of social services will last the next 20, 30, or 40 years. The issue with the argument is that its impossible to show that the European system is even optimal for European societies. One could look at examples of deregulation in very socialist European countries as proofs that there may be positive results in degrulation and freer markets. For example, the Dutch have arguably the most free job market in Europe and is cited to be generally as free as the United States. The result? One of the lowest rates of unemployment in Europe. Likewise, the lowest unemployment rate in Europe comes from the most economically free country in Europe - Switzerland. Take the time to look up economic freedom on Heritage's Index to see how European countries stack up. You'll be surprised. |
You know, a free market has YET to be proven to work in the benefit of society as well, in more ways than just economically. Capitalism failed miserably over in the 80s (funny, around the time communism also started to fail, correlation?) , and lo' and behold, increasing the debt by 3 trillion got it out. This was under Reagan by the way, the greatest de-regualtor and all saved the US major downfall by spending huge amounts of money. After all, there is zero difference between building nukes and roads when it comes to the actual flow of money.
Furthermore I can write you a nice long paper about what a failure Americanism is. It is is as much failed Capitalism as Communism is failed Socialism. I very rarely see the best for cheapest prevail. I see the company that gets the best advertisements and spends the most money on psycholigist research prevail, even if their product is worse and costlier. As another example of business fuck ups, the nuclear reactor problem in Japan happened because of deregulation and bad business.
Basically, I agree that government is a piece of shit, however businesses are far lower than shit and that impresses me.
Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."
HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374
Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420
gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

| vlad321 said:
Furthermore I can write you a nice long paper about what a failure Americanism is. It is is as much failed Capitalism as Communism is failed Socialism. I very rarely see the best for cheapest prevail. I see the company that gets the best advertisements and spends the most money on psycholigist research prevail, even if their product is worse and costlier. As another example of business fuck ups, the nuclear reactor problem in Japan happened because of deregulation and bad business. Basically, I agree that government is a piece of shit, however businesses are far lower than shit and that impresses me. |
My friend, America hasn't had actual Capitalism in decades. We've had Corporatism. Captialism didn't fail us, we failed Capitalism.
The rEVOLution is not being televised
Viper1 said:
My friend, America hasn't had actual Capitalism in decades. We've had Corporatism. Captialism didn't fail us, we failed Capitalism. |
Here is the kicker. You can't have Capitalism either without people's words being ironclad and a strict code oh honer (lawl, what a nice world it would be if it jsut worked like that), or what is more feasible would be to have government regulation to ensure no bullshit occurs. But then you have regulation which is not part of Capitalism, and the entire concept itself is almost a paradox. The more I think about it the more I realize actual Capitalism is even more of a fairy tales than Socialism.
Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."
HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374
Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420
gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835
