By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Politics - Is there anything tax cuts CAN'T fix?

mrstickball on 07 July 2011
vlad321 said:

What is hilarious is that you seem to think that US's dominance is because of Capitalism. Luckily, I however do know how to respond to you if you actually believe that to dispel any illusions you might have.

During WWII every major industry was destroyed except for the US. Literally, everyone else was bombed out and destroyed and the US was left untouched. Obviously that is great for business if you are the only supplier in the world. This is what led to what you jsut called "its golden age." Remeber how factory workers in car companies could have amazing quality of life? That's because they were the ONLY workers inthe world for several decades while the rest of the world competed. Notice how everything started going downhill super fast when the other countries got their shit together? Then around the 80s is when the broken philosophy of the US caught up with it and you had staglflation. How did the US get out of that? $13 trillion to date (started with nearly 3 trillion under Reagan). If you give most nations $13 trillion, they too would be on top.

Basically the US succeeded DESPITE Capitalism, not BECAUSE of it. They succeeded out of sheer dumb luck of having an ocean between them and the Nazis. Now that its luck has run out, it is only running on empty fumes and debt.

Edit: This should have been implicit when I mentoined WWII but I jsut want to make sure you realize that there was a huge talent drain DURING WWII, again to sheer dumb luck.

Your history is impaired my friend.

It wasn't a matter of industries being destroyed during WW2 which caused US to be the dominant manufacturer in the world - Bretton Woods was responsible for that, which gave the US a massive advantage  in trade since the agreement regulated the exchange rate which was favorable - essentially what China does now. You bring up car manufacturers, which is interesting as they are still (in America) paid extremely well - their quality of life is still very good. The only issue with it today is that they have competition from non-union companies which can produce a better car that is cheaper in most respects.

Stagflation didn't occur in the 1980s under Reagan. It occured in the 1970's under Carter (and the seeds were sown under Nixon as well). Reagan fixed stagflation. Look it up - http://economics.about.com/od/useconomichistory/a/stagflation.htm .

You argue that $13 trllion in debt made us great. If that is the case, then you should turn your eyes to every European country which have spent vastly, VASTLY more money per capita than we have. US debt per person is $45,000 per person. In the UK it is more than three times that amount. Germany, Finland, Spain, Portugal, Sweden, Denmark and so on are all much higher as well. By your logic then, all of the argued European countries are in a far worse position, as they've spent sums of money far in excess of the United States. For example, Norway's public debt is ten times higher per capita than Americas.

Don't get me wrong, I agree that debt is a very bad thing - thus why I deride the European system. They have taken on amounts of debt that border on insanity.

The US isn't running on empty fumes and debt. If you believe so, then I highly suggest moving away from here. America has the potential to be great, the question is if we utilize our resources and our people to be great. Due to excessive regulations and restrictions, that is a difficult proposition, but I believe that given our unique blend of society and resources, we could do many things that others cannot if we are allowed to.



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

Around the Network
Akvod on 07 July 2011
mrstickball said:
Akvod said:
GDP=Consumption Spending.
Government consumption/spending=Consumption/Spending

*pats hands*

We have plenty of credit flowing around (due to the Fed's infusion of it into the banks and the increased spending by American consumers). Ending the tax cuts for the rich won't kill investment.

If you don't want to end the tax cuts for the rich in return for increased spending, at least do it in return for a larger tax cut for the lower and middle class.

Keep tax cuts for the poor and middle class, end the Bush tax cuts, increase spending, rebuild our infrastructure (has to be done anyway, might as well use this as an opportunity), impose modest reformations on Medicare and Medicaid and BOOM! You fucking fix the economy, and solve America's long and short term debt problems.

51% of Americans paid no taxes last year. Exactly how much more should you lower taxes on them?

Income Tax=/=All taxes

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/04/22/zombie-tax-lies/



Vetteman94 on 07 July 2011
mrstickball said:
Vetteman94 said:

Social Security only Taxes the first $90,000 $106,000, so not all money earned is taxed for Social Security.  And the Total tax rate is 10.4%, 6.2 for the employer, 4.2 for the employee

And I refuse to believe that comparitive Health Insurance for people that need Medicare is $4900, my grandfathers supplemental insurance is $8K a year,  full coverage for him would Total close $30K.  For the average healthy person in their 30s or 40s, yes $4900 is probably plenty, but most people at Medicare age arent. 

Minor corrections

Medicaid which caters to an entirely different demographic is also $7,900 per recipient. The service varies from $5,000 - $8,000 per state depending on benefits, and is still higher than private insurance.

Feel free to look up the data. Every government health care system in the US is more expensive than private insurance - Medicare, Medicaid, and of course, the champion, the Veterans Administration (about $8,500 per person).

I just gave you an example that says you are wrong,  private insurance for my grandfather that would match what he recieves from medicare would total $30K a year.  A perfectly healthy 65 year old would have a tough time getting health insurance for even close to that $4900. Hell my insurace is $5000 a year, and Im only 31.  You are the one claiming this is possible, you provide me with that information



Vetteman94 on 07 July 2011
Akvod said:
GDP=Consumption Spending.
Government consumption/spending=Consumption/Spending

*pats hands*

We have plenty of credit flowing around (due to the Fed's infusion of it into the banks and the increased spending by American consumers). Ending the tax cuts for the rich won't kill investment.

If you don't want to end the tax cuts for the rich in return for increased spending, at least do it in return for a larger tax cut for the lower and middle class.

Keep tax cuts for the poor and middle class, end the Bush tax cuts, increase spending, rebuild our infrastructure (has to be done anyway, might as well use this as an opportunity), impose modest reformations on Medicare and Medicaid and BOOM! You fucking fix the economy, and solve America's long and short term debt problems.

Agreed,  and we could probably do even more if they cut Military spending,  something that is never brought up during these talks but needs to be.  The excessive amount of money we spend on it is ridiculous.  You dont even have to cut the technology part of it,  just get rid of the large amount of soldiers sitting on foreign bases that have no need to be there.



HappySqurriel on 07 July 2011
Akvod said:
mrstickball said:
Akvod said:
GDP=Consumption Spending.
Government consumption/spending=Consumption/Spending

*pats hands*

We have plenty of credit flowing around (due to the Fed's infusion of it into the banks and the increased spending by American consumers). Ending the tax cuts for the rich won't kill investment.

If you don't want to end the tax cuts for the rich in return for increased spending, at least do it in return for a larger tax cut for the lower and middle class.

Keep tax cuts for the poor and middle class, end the Bush tax cuts, increase spending, rebuild our infrastructure (has to be done anyway, might as well use this as an opportunity), impose modest reformations on Medicare and Medicaid and BOOM! You fucking fix the economy, and solve America's long and short term debt problems.

51% of Americans paid no taxes last year. Exactly how much more should you lower taxes on them?

Income Tax=/=All taxes

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/04/22/zombie-tax-lies/


Just as a side note, Paul Krugman is one of the most intellectually dishonest economists out there and after repeately getting "schooled" on his inaccurate heavily biased blog posts by average people making comments he closed his blog to comments. At many points in time these commentors demonstrated that his views on economics depended mostly on what the Democrats or Republicans were doing at the time, and he has repeatedly been found to condemn an approach taken by the Republicans and then support the same approach when taken by the Democrats.

Or to put it another way, listening to Krugman on economics is kind of like listening to a nutritionist that has been hired by McDonalds on whether fast food is good for you.



Around the Network
badgenome on 07 July 2011
Vetteman94 said:

Im only 31.

And here I've been thinking you were only 17.



VetteDude on 07 July 2011

Taxes should be cut. It helps out the small businesses which are basically the workhorses of America. Then get rid of the nonsense progressive income tax. Tax brackets are a scam designed to punish those who are well off and reward those who make little. Everyone should pay the same percentage.



richardhutnik on 07 July 2011
VetteDude said:
Taxes should be cut. It helps out the small businesses which are basically the workhorses of America. Then get rid of the nonsense progressive income tax. Tax brackets are a scam designed to punish those who are well off and reward those who make little. Everyone should pay the same percentage.

If that is done, will you GUARANTEE that there will never be an economic slowdown?  What happens the next round of economic slowdown and unemployment spikes again?



VetteDude on 07 July 2011
richardhutnik said:
VetteDude said:
Taxes should be cut. It helps out the small businesses which are basically the workhorses of America. Then get rid of the nonsense progressive income tax. Tax brackets are a scam designed to punish those who are well off and reward those who make little. Everyone should pay the same percentage.

If that is done, will you GUARANTEE that there will never be an economic slowdown?  What happens the next round of economic slowdown and unemployment spikes again?


There will always be economic slowdowns caused by various factors. And what happens next round? Nothing. Let the economy pick itself up. Don't bail anybody out, let the companies that screw themselves die and we'll be OK. As of now, our policies are horrible. Bailing out everyone, getting in debt, stimulus packages, and Obama wants to let tax cuts expire?



Viper1 on 07 July 2011
richardhutnik said:
VetteDude said:
Taxes should be cut. It helps out the small businesses which are basically the workhorses of America. Then get rid of the nonsense progressive income tax. Tax brackets are a scam designed to punish those who are well off and reward those who make little. Everyone should pay the same percentage.

If that is done, will you GUARANTEE that there will never be an economic slowdown?  What happens the next round of economic slowdown and unemployment spikes again?

Booms and busts are part of the business cycle.  Trying to manage that cycle is how we screwed ourselves up.

Slowdowns are technically healthy as they allow capital and resources to be properlly allocated back to valid businesses and risky assets to be liquidated.



The rEVOLution is not being televised