By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Nintendo Discussion - The problem with modern video games summed up in one review

Kantor on 19 June 2011

There are times when I don't want enormous amounts of help from the game. Puzzles, for example.

However, in an RPG, when I am in a city, I don't want to hunt around for a quest-giver, or for someone who knows how to find a quest-giver. Either tell me exactly where they are, or put into place a proper way of finding out - for example, you ask someone on the street, and they reply "He sounds like a soldier. Try asking the commander, who should be in the castle throne room" or some such thing.

But since the majority of developers are too lazy for that, we usually end up just having to wander around until we find them.



(Former) Lead Moderator and (Eternal) VGC Detective

Around the Network
Metallicube on 19 June 2011
leatherhat said:

http://www.gamesradar.com/3ds/the-legend-of-zelda-ocarina-of-time-3d/review/the-legend-of-zelda-ocarina-of-time-3d-review/a-20110616202423556029/g-2010061610502183083

Ocarina is particularly bad about dropping excessively vague hints (or no hints at all) as to what to do next. There are a handful of extremely important items (say, the Fire Arrows, Lens of Truth or even Epona) that are buried under a layer of riddles that don’t quite add up. Back in the day, we expected games to be mysterious and obtuse; today, we’re all accustomed to mechanics that lead us from one place to the next, even if it’s on an almost subconscious level. This isn’t about hand-holding or over-tutorializing, which is a whole other problem with games today – it’s about fundamental design, and Ocarina has always had this issue, especially compared to Wind Waker or Twilight Princess. 

 This is the problem with modern games. No mystery. No Adventure. No discovery. Its pathetic, every game now a days has waypoints and other nonsense to drag you through the game. It pisses me off. There's never any easter  eggs or sidequests or things to find. Its just mission/cutscene/ waypoint to the next mission etc. All but a few games follow this formula- and those exceptions are far and away the best games of the gen. 

And here is a mainstream reviewer complaining about a game that has these elements (with plenty of hand holding via Saria and Navi). Casual to the max, and everything wrong with modern game design. 

These are the issues I have with many modern games as well. They are far too linear, giving you little freedom to alter outcomes or make discoveries, and you just don't get that sense of accomplishment that many older games provided. You're sort of guided along strict boundaries and no matter what you do doesn't really affect the outcome, because usually you get the same story, cutscenes, items, etc anyway.



huaxiong90 on 19 June 2011
d21lewis said:
Game design is becoming a lost art. I think that most game developers don't even know how to make a game that actually offers good exploration, hints, etc. Their "puzzles" hit you with the subtlety of a kick to the nuts.
One popular series even gave me the answer to a puzzle when I was thinking about how to figure it out. It went like this:

Me: Okay, now we're getting somewhere. Now let me figure this out. First I'm going to.....
Game: Climb here, hit the switch, follow the cable. Press X.
Me: WTF, game!? I could have figured that out if you gave me five more seconds
Game: You're welcome, bro. Don't think. Just marvel at my graphics and be happy. I'm trying to tell a story here.

I like a cinematic game as much as the next guy but I also like the feeling of satisfaction that comes from being challenged by a puzzle and figuring it out. That feeling is becoming harder and harder to come by these days.

You're talking about Uncharted 2, right? If so, I agree completely.



Rockstar: Announce Bully 2 already and make gamers proud!

Kojima: Come out with Project S already!

mysticwolf on 19 June 2011

I have the origional NES Zelda, the version for the GBA, and it is tough. I don't like to admit it, but I couldn't do it without the help of walkthroughs and maps for some places.



 Been away for a bit, but sneaking back in.

Gaming on: PS4, PC, 3DS. Got a Switch! Mainly to play Smash

richardhutnik on 21 June 2011
Metallicube said:
leatherhat said:

http://www.gamesradar.com/3ds/the-legend-of-zelda-ocarina-of-time-3d/review/the-legend-of-zelda-ocarina-of-time-3d-review/a-20110616202423556029/g-2010061610502183083

Ocarina is particularly bad about dropping excessively vague hints (or no hints at all) as to what to do next. There are a handful of extremely important items (say, the Fire Arrows, Lens of Truth or even Epona) that are buried under a layer of riddles that don’t quite add up. Back in the day, we expected games to be mysterious and obtuse; today, we’re all accustomed to mechanics that lead us from one place to the next, even if it’s on an almost subconscious level. This isn’t about hand-holding or over-tutorializing, which is a whole other problem with games today – it’s about fundamental design, and Ocarina has always had this issue, especially compared to Wind Waker or Twilight Princess. 

 This is the problem with modern games. No mystery. No Adventure. No discovery. Its pathetic, every game now a days has waypoints and other nonsense to drag you through the game. It pisses me off. There's never any easter  eggs or sidequests or things to find. Its just mission/cutscene/ waypoint to the next mission etc. All but a few games follow this formula- and those exceptions are far and away the best games of the gen. 

And here is a mainstream reviewer complaining about a game that has these elements (with plenty of hand holding via Saria and Navi). Casual to the max, and everything wrong with modern game design. 

These are the issues I have with many modern games as well. They are far too linear, giving you little freedom to alter outcomes or make discoveries, and you just don't get that sense of accomplishment that many older games provided. You're sort of guided along strict boundaries and no matter what you do doesn't really affect the outcome, because usually you get the same story, cutscenes, items, etc anyway.

Designers today are falling in love with the concept they could make things that are like movie-like experiences, and due to the sheer amount of resources they have, they can handcraft the path players go in, bombard them with controlled experiences, and make people feel they are part of some adventure.  The more you control the narrative, the more freedom you lose.  There are two established ways to set up a gameworld: either you go with everything being scripted or you have a procedurally generated world that is living where your actions change the landscape of the world.  The later is a smart sandbox, and not merely a tabletop with toys and doodads on it, which is a placeholder for scripted missions.



Around the Network
menx64 on 22 June 2011
d21lewis said:


 Best video ever!!!

OT: yep, devs these days think we dont know how to solve a puzzle without the need of a press x, look here, do this... meh...

Hurra for big exploration games, We need xenoblade now!



Menx64

3DS code: 1289-8222-7215

NNid: Menx064

kingofbubba on 30 June 2011

On the topic of Zelda games, I'll tell you what's wrong with today's casual games. Way too much time dedicated to open chests, holding the contents over your head, and popping up the same dialogue box with words telling me I'm so excited and this is so good. This just shows how much developers think today's gamers need positive reinforcement and telling us we're doing a good job, here's a prize! to help us finish the game. ;-P



Back2TheFuture on 30 June 2011

there will never be a game greater then rc revenge pro on the ps2 the most underatted fun game to ever go on a console i cant believe ign gave it a 2.5 its the best thing ever



richardhutnik on 30 June 2011
kingofbubba said:
On the topic of Zelda games, I'll tell you what's wrong with today's casual games. Way too much time dedicated to open chests, holding the contents over your head, and popping up the same dialogue box with words telling me I'm so excited and this is so good. This just shows how much developers think today's gamers need positive reinforcement and telling us we're doing a good job, here's a prize! to help us finish the game. ;-P

When is it good design to NOT provide positive feedback for players advancing in the game?



kingofbubba on 30 June 2011

@ richardhutnik: I'm just being sarcastic because some of the things in zelda games these days. The positive feedback is getting whatever was in the chest, not some stupid unskippable animation and repeated dialogue box every time. Wind Waker is a perfect example of it. And it's definitely a problem with modern video games. Every time you even get a red rupee (directly given to you or in a box NOT off the ground) they feel the need to go through the whole rigamarole. So, Devs should cut the crap (and the hour or so of repeated unskippable animation in the course of a game) assume that you don't need an explanation for the same thing 40 times in a game and give more content that you can actually advance toward.