actually i kinda feel in that situation right now. are you continue slapping me with replies now until i admit i was wrong?

i already said i do not condone any of this. i still find it interesting. do i need to be healed now?

Ok, ok. I know you know you were wrong. Just make sure your scientific curiosity never gets the better of your moral values.

I find it funny when ever one of my stories conflicts with your beliefs you automatically call their legitamacy into question. Their are many psychological things that can change a man's outlook on life, psychology could easily change someones sexual orientation. Also I couldn't hear the audio so I never watched the videos. But being phsyically punished every time you do something, would effect you psychologically. You would either rebel and do exactly what you were not supposed to do, or youd break and conform to what was being forced on you.

In this case he could have easily decided screw society screw my parents, that doctor I will do what ever they don't want me too. This could lead him to a more homosexual lifestyle. Now you say that psychology does not effect sexual orientation. Now tell me do you consider Metrosexuality a sexual orientation? Do you consider it biological? Being Metro what made me this way was the lack of male influences. My dad was never around by court order, my other sibling was a younger sister. The majority of my friends were girls. This effected how I grew up and made me Metro. Now I fought the idea I was Metro for a very long time, untill it turned out everyone thought I was gay and those that didn't thought I was Metro. Infact I don't know a single friend who doesn't think I'm Metro. So now I admit it. But fact is psychology effects sexual orientation in cases, maybe not all cases but psychology plays a very big role in everything a human does.

Doctors and scientists these days are still considered God's in white coats. Every doctor thinks they know everything and they will go to great lengths to prove they do. Scientists today still do all kinds of things to prove their points and theories. Whether it is experimenting on humans or animals.

Again blaming the Christians and Conservatives for this experiment and all lifes problems. Your forgetting the horrible experiments and things done to human patients by athiest doctors, and other religious doctors. Instead of saying "This experiment was bad" you feel compelled to say "This experiment is bad and its all because of Christians". I don't know why you always have to blame everything on Christians. Would you have honestly posted a story about a mental patients brutal treatment at the hands of an athiest doctor? No you wouldn't. Fact is this isn't a Christian issue, scientists and doctors across the world have done these same horrible things in the name of science for hundreds to thousands of years. But you wouldn't write about those cases because they don't agree with your agenda.

Now about the horrific fact that these practices are still carried out on gays. I myself was brought to a homeopathic nurse to cure my autism. I was strapped to a bed and had these weird strobes put over my head. Now it was nothing like the movies I barely felt the shocks but it was very interesting to see such a practice still being carried out (Last year) on people with mental dissabilities. Up until the late 60's their were cases of lobotomies being carried out here in Canada. Infact today lobotomies are still being performed on epileptic patients and other people with mental dissabilities. Now these are being carried out by doctors today against people with mental dissabilities. These aren't Conservative Christian's pushing a hidden agenda.

Now is having your brain scrambled any worse then what this doctor did in the name of science to cure this man of homosexuality? The horrible things you mention that the Christian Pastor was doing to cure a young boy of homosexuality. Step inside a psych ward. Patients are tied to beds, but in pitch black rooms with soft walls. They are drugged beyond belief they are subjected often to abuse by workers. They are confined like prisoners. I have known people who went into psych wards for schizophrenia and he spent a whole week in a room with no light just sitting by himself.

Now today homeopaths and many doctors use many methods to cure mental illnesses. Many far worse then what this doctor subjected that child too. Do I think the doctor did something wrong, yes. However I think you using the story just to vent how pissed you are at conservatives and Christians, thats pretty wrong in itself.

I am highly offended that you ignore all the stories these days of people being treated just as bad if not worse by the medical field. Also what about all the other suicides? What about the 3,616 suicides each year in the US. Why is this single case so important? Thats just the US consider how many suicides their are each year accross the earth?

Almost everyone commiting suicide has been driven to that point. What about the bullying of people of all beliefs carried out by no not just Christians but everyone else. The pink shirt rally in Canada is a perfect example this one kid got bullied all the time because he had a pink shirt. So finally some of the highschool students noticed and wore pink shirts as well and it soon became a big deal to wear a pink shirt.

Many victims of suicide have been tormented their whole lives. Christians aren't the only ones out their bullying. Infact even Athiests bully and agnostics and people of all beliefs. But you will only care about the few cases caused by Christian's. Its like the Bible said about the man who points out the splinter of wood in his neighbours eye while ignoring the log in his own.

Fact is yah some Christian's screw up, but their are thousands of cases of suicide and other autrocities caused by non-Christians across the world.

So to summorize your and I's debate

- People still do horrible things to try and fix people. Lobotomies, electroshock therapy forced confinement tie people down. all of these methods are still legal and carried out by both Christians and non-Christians

-a handful of gay guys commit suicide each year, the news and gay movement go nutz while the other 3,000+ suicide victims get ignored by the general public. If your not gay your suicide doesn't matter to most people

I could go on but am tired so I'm out. But this is why I get so peived. People don't seem to care about the lobotomies or the electroshock therapy dished out to Autistic patients and other mental patients, but when a gay guy gets it to treat his homosexuality suddenly its a big deal. 3,000 people die each year of suicide but the second a gay guy kills himself it makes the news, this has to be like the sixth or so case I've heard reported in the last year.

Homosexuals are people like everyone else, they deserve no less or no more attention then is given to everyone else. A suicide victim is a suicide victim. A doctor who is Christian and carries out electroshock therapy is evil but a doctor scrambling a patients brains because he is alittle different isn't reported or seen as unbrutal.

In the end I think all these barbaric methods should become illegal, whether your a Christian doctor or not. No special treatment in the media should be given to any single individual. We should all be treated with equal dignity and respect!

You really need to study formal logic and scientific proof because you really don't have a clue what you're talking about.

i was wrong? in what way? is it wrong to feel guilty for finding something of interest? i really don't get what you are aiming at.

Nice dude, really nice. You don't sound like a homophobe at all.

@Joelcool7:

I find it funny when ever one of my stories conflicts with your beliefs you automatically call their legitamacy into question.

Your stories are questionable for several reasons. Your past stories were disproven by people who live in the same country as you do (the school where everybody was gay, and straight people were bullied story). This in turn leads me to look at all your stories with skepticism, especially when they seem outrageous. You seem to know of lots of cases like this, yet no one else has such experiences. It's as if you read the, from some church pamflet warning against the dangers of homosexuality.

Their are many psychological things that can change a man's outlook on life, psychology could easily change someones sexual orientation.

Outside of the ex-gay movement, I doubt any respectable psychologist would make such a claim.

But being phsyically punished every time you do something, would effect you psychologically. You would either rebel and do exactly what you were not supposed to do, or youd break and conform to what was being forced on you. In this case he could have easily decided screw society screw my parents, that doctor I will do what ever they don't want me too. This could lead him to a more homosexual lifestyle.

Except sexual orientation isn't a lifestyle. It simply means being attracted to someone of a particular gender. He did not start having sex with men to rebell against anyone, he had sex with men because h found men attractive. The rationale behind this experiment was that effeminate boys grow up to be gay, so making them butch up will make them turn out straight. The "treatment" consisted of making him act like a "normal" little boy (as in a boy who played with action figures, was aggressive etc.), the ideea being that if he didn't act effeminate he wouldn't end up being gay. That obviously proved to not be true, not because of some rebellion, but because the two aren't connected, and homosexuality is about internal desires and feelings which cannot be modified by externam factors. If he had rebelled, he would've become extremely effeminate, and would've opened up a hair salon or something. Instead he joined the army, so he was obviously doing the opposite of rebelling.

Now tell me do you consider Metrosexuality a sexual orientation? Do you consider it biological?

No, metrosexuality is not a sexual orientation. A metrosexual is defined as a man who spends a lot of time and money on shopping, in order to take care of his physical appearence. It has nothing to do with sexuality (though FTR, metrosexuals are generally heterosexual men, not gay men). So your example doesn't prove anything.

Doctors and scientists these days are still considered God's in white coats. Every doctor thinks they know everything and they will go to great lengths to prove they do. Scientists today still do all kinds of things to prove their points and theories. Whether it is experimenting on humans or animals.

Due to things like the Internet, doctor's are no longer assumed to have infinite and absolute knowledge, now that people themselves can have easy access to medical information (plus, all the scandals that took place in the aftermath of the "gods in white coats" period has made people stop trusting doctors).

Again blaming the Christians and Conservatives for this experiment and all lifes problems.

I'm blaming them for THIS experiment, and it's quite justified because:

- They're the ones who funded it;

- The doctors that performed this experiment were affiliated with christian organisations;

- They created the "need" for such an experiment in the first place.

Your forgetting the horrible experiments and things done to human patients by athiest doctors, and other religious doctors.

It's irrelevant to this issue.

Would you have honestly posted a story about a mental patients brutal treatment at the hands of an athiest doctor? No you wouldn't. Fact is this isn't a Christian issue, scientists and doctors across the world have done these same horrible things in the name of science for hundreds to thousands of years. But you wouldn't write about those cases because they don't agree with your agenda.

THIS is a christian issue! Regarding atheist doctors, during the Holocaust, nazi doctors would performed horrible genetic experiments on gays. I'm quite sure some of them were atheists. There's no group identity within atheists, and I quite frankly don't see the actions of other atheists having anything to do with me. There's also no such thing as an "atheist ideology", so if an atheist is homophobic, that has nothing to do with his/her atheism.

Up until the late 60's their were cases of lobotomies being carried out here in Canada. Infact today lobotomies are still being performed on epileptic patients and other people with mental dissabilities. Now these are being carried out by doctors today against people with mental dissabilities. These aren't Conservative Christian's pushing a hidden agenda.

Epilespy is not a mental disorder, it's a neurological disorder.

Now is having your brain scrambled any worse then what this doctor did in the name of science to cure this man of homosexuality? The horrible things you mention that the Christian Pastor was doing to cure a young boy of homosexuality. Step inside a psych ward. Patients are tied to beds, but in pitch black rooms with soft walls. They are drugged beyond belief they are subjected often to abuse by workers. They are confined like prisoners. I have known people who went into psych wards for schizophrenia and he spent a whole week in a room with no light just sitting by himself.

It's nor any worse, but it in no way lessens the treatment that this guy was subjected to, which for a fact is the subject of this whole thread.

I am highly offended that you ignore all the stories these days of people being treated just as bad if not worse by the medical field.

Why? What obligation do I have to keep track of EVERY case of abuse in the medical field? I randomly found this and decided to post it. Instead of criticising me, how about you make your own thread and post about a case of medical abuse you've heard of.

Also what about all the other suicides? What about the 3,616 suicides each year in the US. Why is this single case so important? Thats just the US consider how many suicides their are each year accross the earth?

You're just trying to make this case seem less important. It's not just the suicide, but the envets that led up to it (most importantly the experiment).

Many victims of suicide have been tormented their whole lives. Christians aren't the only ones out their bullying. Infact even Athiests bully and agnostics and people of all beliefs. But you will only care about the few cases caused by Christian's. Its like the Bible said about the man who points out the splinter of wood in his neighbours eye while ignoring the log in his own.

I don't believe I've ever made anyone commit suicide. You've also just admitted that christians are to blame for this suicide. The bottom line is that most people who commit suicide rarely do so because of abuse they recieve from society as a whole.

-a handful of gay guys commit suicide each year, the news and gay movement go nutz while the other 3,000+ suicide victims get ignored by the general public. If your not gay your suicide doesn't matter to most people

Suicide rates are higher amongst gays then amongst the general population.

I could go on but am tired so I'm out. But this is why I get so peived. People don't seem to care about the lobotomies or the electroshock therapy dished out to Autistic patients and other mental patients, but when a gay guy gets it to treat his homosexuality suddenly its a big deal. 3,000 people die each year of suicide but the second a gay guy kills himself it makes the news, this has to be like the sixth or so case I've heard reported in the last year.

One of the reasons why it's a big deal is that homosexuality is not a "disease", nor is it somethign that needs to be "cured". Those other things you mentioned really are disorders/diseases.

Are you happy that the experiment took place, and you could get all this info, or would you have rather the experiment never taken place, and this guy (and the other people who were put through this) never experienced such abuse?

waw everyone is just qouting part of what i say from my first post and don't want to read the next qoute for clarification.
no i don't have an anti-gay stance, i used to however my friend put it to me in another prespective some time ago which made me reconsider and i no longer have problems with having gay people in our society.