good for you. You're still wrong though. Homosexuality is not abnormal because the goal of a species is not always to procreate. There are many species where a portion of the population has duties other than procreation.

Like I said in another thread. Humans are all unique in vastly different ways. We are different because that is where species survival happens. Whenever you hear about that 1% who is immune to AIDS, or that 5% who have extra brain folds, remember that those statistics are the same make as homosexuality. Also, have you ever heard of "the psychopath test"? It's a book (probably cited it incorrectly but oh well) that talks about how psychopaths can be very productive to society, and that a large number of the total psychopaths are CEOs, because their wiring is set in a way that they are capable of doing things "Normal" people cannot. For instance, some people can live off of 4 hours of sleep per day, etc.

Homosexuality is not abnormal, in the sense that there is something "wrong" with them, be it wiring, chemical imbalance, etc. They are simply the result of humanity, as are geniuses, psychopaths, radical thinkers, and pop icons. Like I said, it is a 2nd century logic you are using. Try thinking about the subject some more. Think about all the other "abnormal" people of the world, and then try and justify how one is MORE abnormal than the other, and what it means for humanity. All those underlined are "abnormal".

The Bible is not an antagonist here, it's just that the Bible was designed to help people live productive lives in an easy way. It's title could be, "Living for Dummies". The problem is that dummies are interpreting the book as if it's the last word, whereas true christians do not. Look at priests, for example. The ones that care the LEAST about the Bible and the rules and the interpretations, are the OLD/WISE ones. The Bible said that homosexuality is abnormal because in that day, it could cause a lot of problems, and could end family names, and the state could seize their property, etc etc. This is not the case in the modern world, and therefore we need a modern take of the whole situation. Understanding begins with questioning what is abnormal.

i will reply on yours since its a nice reply, firstly i was raised on that concept so it is hard for me to change, i have changed alot in the last two years to tolerate having gay people in the society and i see your point of view as a sound one, thanks for a sensible reply. I am out of this thread since i am being targetted for one or 2 sentences i said and the thread is going into a flamebait about right vs wrong.
this point of view makes me reconsider some of my ideology to an extent. +1

"Homosexuality is Gods gift of ensuring that the truly gifted are not burdened with children."

I love how people argue that being gay is somehow "unnatural". - Take a look at other species, some Animals (Even pets) turn out to be gay as-well.
It's not only limited to Homo-sapiens, so how can it be unnatural when nature itself displays the same acts? It's not a disease so it can't be transmitted.

We all bleed the same colour of blood, the discrimination against sexual alignment needs to end, it's the 21st century for crying out loud! Homosexuals don't harm society, they are productive normal people.

The world would be boring if we were all the same.

I've pretty much given up arguing against people who are dead set against something like Homosexuality, people like that are set in their ways and incredibly closed minded on such topics, but it doesn't help that I still find it infuriating... No wonder with society like it is that the suicide rate for Homosexual teenagers is so stupidly high.
Their life isn't worth any less than any one elses.

No offense but you don't call homosexuals fags, or black people the N word. What makes it okay to call people with different mental make ups psychopaths? If the book truly talks about gifted individuals and people with learning disabilities as psychopaths then the book is not even worth reading.

Do you know the effects calling people with disabilities psychopaths have? Your right people with different abilities and mental make up do often become CEO's , president's and other outstanding people do all kinds of things. But calling these individuals psychopaths is just horrible. I guess you were talking directly about the book. But I wouldn't read a book on gay's calling them Fag's or black calling them the N word. Its just insensative and if a book talks about people like that then its obviously not worth my time.

As for homosexuality being un-natural. Its pretty hard to deny that it occurs naturally. Now if you want to say its abnormal you'd be correct as it occurs rarely within the human race. Now lets define normal, my psychiatrist once put it this way. He said grab anyone, any man women or child and put them infront of a good psychiatrist. He said with some time every single individual on earth will have some sort of mental disability. Their isn't a single normal person on the face of this earth that does not, people try to justify themselves by calling themselves normal and picking on people different then they are, however they are not anymore normal then the people they pick on.

So is homosexuality normal? Yes and No. Its not common but what makes something normal?

@Joelcool7:

I actually almost started crying when I saw your huge post. And you had to double post too. I'm not going to quote the parts I'm relying to.

1. I was talking about all your stories about gays going straight. Those were the ones I found questionable. I'm well aware that you can find lots of gays where you live, and I'm not surprisded you know some.

2. The brain is an organ that works in a certain way. Not everything regarding it can be controlled. All respected psychologists agree that sexual orientation cannot be changed.

3. I've already given you the definition of homosexuality (sexual attraction to people of the same sex as yourself). Going to clubs has nothing to do with it. Metrosexuality IS a lifestyle however.

4. People aren't really as self aware as you may think. Maybe the guy (who claimed to like girls, but now he doesn't) just assumed that he was straight (that's what society promotes), and thought he liked girls 'till he was with a guy and saw what it was like to really "like" someone. I myself know a guy who was like that. Regarding your friend who now considers himself bi, well sexual orientation referres to sexual attraction.The encounter may have made him realise that he finds guys attractive. However, you should not confuse enjoying anal stimulation with being gay. All men, not just gay men can enjoy anal stimulation, because all men have prostates. Anal sex for men has typically held a negative stigma due to society's ideas of power, however there's really no reason why any man wouldn't enjoy recieving anal stimulation (,ost heterosexual men will be too afraid, as today anal stimulation is associated errneously with homosexuality).

5. Christianity implies a certain ideology, whereas Atheism and Agnosticism don't. This experiment was carried out by Christians, because of their Christian beleifs, which makes it noteworthy to single out the fact that Christians were involved in it. The same can be said about the Catholic "doctors" from Germany.

6. I never said politicians should give up their religious beleifs, I said that they should be objective and impartial, and not let their religious beliefs interfere with their political deicision, as they are elected to represent EVERY citizen. Religion is something personal, that should serve as a guide for how the INDIVIDUAl who follows said religion should live his life, if he so chooses. It should not be turned into law and forced upon the enitre population.

7. This isn't a thread about a suicide case. This is a thread about the 'Sissy Boy Experiment' and it's aftermath. This is also part of a bigger issue within society: homophobia, the persecution of gays, and ex-gay organisations.

8. The fact that this guy commited suicide is very important, because he was for a long time the poster child for ex-gay therapy. The fact that the experiment failed, and also destroyed his life is something that should be known by the world. Ex-gay organisations claim that homosexuals can "change" and that "change" is necessary for homosexuals to be happy, and it's quite important to expose their lies.

9. Lunk to info about the suicide rates of gays: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_among_LGBT_youth

10. The abuse that elticker experienced was terrible, but it's important to note that in his case it was cruel and unusual punishment for childhood shenanigans. His father was a psychotic abuser. The guy from this experiment experienced abuse on several levels, abuse tha tstarted ever since he was 11 months old (!!!), and that lasted 'till his late teens. This abuse was psychological and physical, and the main reason was his very being. Nothing that he did, that he felt, that he said and that he thought was considered right. He was single out as "defective", "wrong", "deviant", almost from when he was born. This is a type of abuse that very few people experience, and what's worse is that it's encouraged by society, and was actually promoted by official organisations and organised religion.

11. The definition you gave of "disease" is very suspect. It's really the definition given to pseudo-diseases often present within psychology, and helps the dominant class marginaliza all the people who aren't like them. "Abnormal" to humanity in general, or "abnormal" compared to the dominant class? "Harmful" in an objective way (degradation of health, may lead to death), or "harmful" in that it challenges the status-quo, and reveals the myths in which the dominant class has sorrounded itself?  By this definition, being left-handed could be considered a disease.

Here's the first definition of disease given by the Free Online Dictionary (which you overlooked):

I'm going to disagree with this. The Bible is definately an antagonist, as it's a product created by a class in order to impose it's principles, naturalize it's ideology and put itself in the central of normalcy, while banishing all those who challenge their status-quo to the periphery of society.

The purpose of the book is to criticise how easily people are labeled as deviant within society.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6aCir5bu-c

Sorry Sapphi my audio on my PC is friend and I can't hear the video. However I'll take your word for it. If the book is about stereotyping and labeling people with mental disorders as psychopaths then maybe I should give it a look.

Also thank you for your very mature reply to my earlier post, this is why I like debating with you. Though I find it troubling your always against everything Christian at least you reply with dignity and respect at least in most cases. Though I must admit I too get heated and sometimes reply alittle meanly lol.

This experiment never should have happened. Now I know someone who had supposedly turned strait after going through a program in Alberta. This case you say you don't believe, well apparently he's gay again. However I've talked to him and he said their are people who have come out of the program successfully. This and my recent friend coming out of the closet have changed some of perspectives, I never used to believe anyone was born with gay tendancies I now believe otherwise.

As for every male liking anal, your right. But that proves one of my points if every man likes anal and someone experiments sexually and has another man do anal on him, likes it. Does that mean he is gay? Does that mean he's Bi? Well my one friend who is Bi at least says he is said he just loved anal and that helped him realize he was Bi.

Fact is sex is confusing especially if your experimenting all the time. Especially with almost all guys enjoying anal, never tried it but I don't doubt it. Fact is if you get a dick up their when your experimenting sexually, you like the feeling whats going to go through your mind? Not I'm straight I can guarantee that lol.

Anyways, I have yet to knowingly lie here on VGChartz. Some of the things I have said, I would be very stupid to have made those up about myself. Even in this very thread I have oppened up about things about myself that are very personal. I just think VGChartz should be a safe place and most users such as yourself aren't about to make fun of me or such.

Anyways Sapphi great discussion. Its 6AM here and I need to get to bed. TTYL!

I only use the word to refer to the actual clinical term that people are aware of. The only other term that exists is dissocial personality disorder BUT rarely do the two terms refer to the same thing.

Secondly, the book doesn't talk about gifted individuals as being psychopaths. It talks about how sometimes the mix of their traits is very desirable by society. Here are common traits. Cunning, superficial, manipulative, pathological liar, shall I go on? In the right forumla, you can see how this type of person can acheive a LOT of power, especially when they aren't held back by conscience, regret, and empathy.

Now, would I consider them "abnormal". No. They are a unique type of individual, as am I.

@bolded- Yes, exactly. Everyone is odd and different. But your conclusion doesn't follow logically. Shouldn't your question be "being different is normal", or "is the existence of homosexuality normal"

the answer is yes on both counts.

@Joelcool7:

Now I know someone who had supposedly turned strait after going through a program in Alberta. This case you say you don't believe, well apparently he's gay again. However I've talked to him and he said their are people who have come out of the program successfully.

No, these programs don't work. Those people who claim to be "cured" are the people you hear about getting caught by police officers in public restrooms for making inappropriate sexual advances.

Does that mean he's Bi? Well my one friend who is Bi at least says he is said he just loved anal and that helped him realize he was Bi.

People have the faulty belief that you need to have sex before you realise what's your sexual orientation. It's really not true.

Not I'm straight I can guarantee that lol.

If you say so...

As for every male liking anal, your right. But that proves one of my points if every man likes anal and someone experiments sexually and has another man do anal on him, likes it. Does that mean he is gay? Does that mean he's Bi?

No. That means that he likes anal stimulation. You don't need a man for that. There are also gay men who don't like anal sex.

Its 6AM here and I need to get to bed.

6 AM???!!! You should sleep more!