Fortunately, vlad, you don't get to tell people to what place they may or may not feel a connection, nor do you get to tell them to lay down and die. Also, how many times in your estimation do the Israelis need to beat back the Arabs before the Arabs should give up?

I'm not sure to what part of my description of the Texas Revolution you object. Tejanos joined the Texians in revolution, and it was absolutely in the name of self-determination. The fact that they briefly established the Republic of Texas rather than immediately joining the U.S. should tell you that.

As I said earlier, none of these "beating back Arabs" would have happened had the jews not been handed land that wasn't theirs, nor had external help in defending it. The jews had no right to the land there, which is my whole point. I also agreed with what Kasz was saying about how the situation should be more or less handled now that everything is all sorts of fucked.

My main objection is that it wouldn't have gotten far if the Americans that Mexico willfully allowed in weren't there. This would go in another discussion however because this can be expanded into a big argument in itself.

 so how the hell do they have no right to what was their land stolen from them repeatedly and which they purchased off the then present landowners?

Again, you are woefully, woefully wrong. This "handing land to the Jews" business (which was not at all like you make it sound) is an example of politics catching up to reality, namely that Palestine had a sizeable Jewish population. If the British were so determined to hand Palestine off to the Jews, they would have been encouraging Jewish immigration rather than trying to restrict it.

If Jewish immigration back to Palestine predates British rule and even Ottoman rule, then we are talking about a phenomenon that goes back at least to the 1200s. So your idea that Jews have no place there is simply fucking ludicrous.

Again, jsut because people move into an area and sit there, doesn't mean it's theirs. It does not give them claim to anything considering there are some who have been there for even longer that didn't leave. Then they were just handed the land they didn't deserve. Some of the modern palestinians date all the way from the original jews, who jsut happen to ahev assimilated with whoever it is that came in. Macedonians, Romans, Ottomans, etc. and they all have far more claim than the ones who were driven off, then decided to just come waltzing back.

You have made this assertion more times than I care to count, so I'll ask: what were they handed? When, and by whom?

The land in modern Palestine was to be recognized as two different states by the UN, when one of the peoples there didn't have any good claim to the land other than "our fairy tales say so."

So? The UN says a lot of shit, but all their declarations never make into reality something that isn't already so. The claim that the Jews had to the land was not that their "fairy tales say so" but that they were already living there. The UN was only seeking to end the Arab-Jewish conflict by proposing a two state solution.

Again, what were the Jews handed?

I know they were living there, they filtered in before the UN declaration. That doesn't mean that they didn't encroach on the people who were still there already, the palestenians. They were just basic immigrants when you look at the two peoples and they shoudl have been treated as such. Given the palestenians their lands, and do the best they coudl have to protect the jews. Instead the jews received land as well.

Again, while the huge waves of immigration increased tensions between two existing populations, I cannot fathom why you feel that the Jews - who have always maintained a presence in Palestine - were less legitimate citizens than the Arabs. Is it purely because the Jews counted the more recent arrivals among their number? Should the Jews have been limited to Jerusalem only, where they already had a majority?

Suppose the UN took the Arabs' side 100% and said that the Jews had to GTFO. What would have been different? The Arabs never accepted the partition to begin with, which is why they attacked the Jews - and lost.