You have no concept of what it is, so how can you second guess?

Using 1.5 gigs of active RAM, peaking out CPU processes on a 1.86 ghz Celeron M, yes, I do need it..... unless I want to spend 5 minutes generating content each time I want to listen to a final song.  The simple idea is that I already have the system that does this 'extra' junk, like pictures, mp3's, web surfing, chatting....  any future installment I get, including an upgrade, has all these features these consoles have as well - it's not a selling point.

Number crunching is the same as all these benchmark statistics that use picture editting manipulation and math calculations to generate benchmarks for processors.

I'm sorry, your music-generation software is in another castle.

Unless of course you want to use MIDI generation as your prime source HAH. You'd be surprised how many complete, or how many songs use partially artificial sounds, including sampled (pre-recorded and manipulated by computer software) to generate music on games. Very few soundtracks use 100% acoustic orchestral sounds. Even movie themes are at least 20% non-live recordings or more... like Pirates.

Legend11, you are not one of the people I refer to when I made that post.

I'm saying, there are plenty of genuine 360 and PS3 lovers who buy their systems for the games.

But I'm also saying, there are tons of people out there who just buy these systems because they have the best graphics and that's all they care about. I'm not dissing the systems.

And PC buying is a totally different thing. I like my PC games to run nice and smooth, so I buy good PC components every now and then. I don't spend that much on it though.

Don't take it personally, this is just my opinion and my personal experience when dealing with people I know who have bought 360s. 3 of my friends are gamers and bought 360s for the great games. 6 of them are filled with booze and bought 360s because "it has HD and Wii is for fagtards" and etc. I'm not trying to start anything, but you can't deny there's a large number of people that would never even consider a different system because of the way the 360 is advertised.

 That would be nice, but at this point I'm doubtful. Legend11 gave a good list:

These are the gaming equivalents of the summer blockbusters in the film industry. I'd just like to add that not only are these specific games not available on Wii, neither are any games that could even remotely be called substitutes. And there hasn't been the slightest hint from any developer that this is going to change -- we've got some promising sales figures that we figure might influence their future decisions, but where are the press releases, the screenshots, the concrete game announcements? We've literally got nothing.

 Wii is more than just the minigame dumpster it's sometimes made out to be: it's a place for bright, instantly fun games from all genres. But for deep, engrossing games, the kind that move through story and gameplay arcs and offer an experience all of their own, it's a vacuum. There's no reason except pure optimism to think this will change.

 Legend of Zelda might be the sole exception.

I think you're probably right about that. 

Sony/MS fanboys always claim that Wii is for children and and families, but if you look at the actual Wii demographics you can probably break it down into these categories.
1.) Children - age 6 - 14
2.) People who enjoy console gaming but can't afford 360/ps3
3.) Traditional gamers - males age 14 - 24
4.) Former Gamers who like nintendo/motion controls
5.) Non traditional gamers - girls, and people over the age of 30

Everyone always claims that there are way better games on PS3 and 360 because for traditional gamers this is true. Developers expected 360 or PS3 to win so they devoted all their dollars to make amazing games for those systems. Developers thought Wii would be another GC with moderate success dominated by Nintendo games, so they didn't bother to make any good games for the Wii.

Developers have started moving resources to the Wii and we will start seeing better and better games coming out and being announced every month. PS360 fanboys claim that only 1st party games are successful on Wii, but this is only because that is all the 3rd party developers have really made for the system so far. If you look at the 5 groups of Wii consumers above you will see that groups 2, 3 and 4 all show potential to buy hardcore Wii games if they are created. And over the next 4 or 5 years group 1, the children, will grow up into tradition gamers.

So if the developers make the amazing AAA games they make for the other systems, they will be successful on Wii because there are gamers who will buy them that own a Wii.

Ah the hardcores try so veimently to justify and defend the 360 and Ps3 in this argument but in the end all it does is echoe the fear of change Nintendo brings.

You expect us to think the PS3's sales will only grow but the Wii's won't?

You expect us to think the PS3 and 360 will get more games but the Wii won't?

Did you not see the 360's first year? Can you call that encouraging? Yet we're to see all the Wii has achieved its first year as the testament to all it can ever achieve? Shame on you fanboys. Shame on your shortsightedness. Shame on your wanting all gaming just to be a new take on PC gaming.

If the PS3 continues at a steady pace it will sell 49m in seven years not 63 as it actually only sold 7m its first year. Of course these linear predictions that the Wii won't last and the PS3 somehow will not only defy tried and true trends of gaming past but they painfully illustrate the cherrypicking of what individuals want to believe to their own benefit.

I hate to break it to you but Nintendo gaming was here long before your brand of "Mature" Gaming. You're the troublesome trend, not us. Be thankful for the PC, it will be your liferaft in years to come.

The list you created is impressive but you and Legend11 always miss one MASSIVE important point ... How many of these games began development in 2007 or later?

No one doubts that third party publishers discounted the Wii from the begining and only started to consider that it could be successful after E3 2006; after E3 2006, the Wii's launch, passing the XBox 360 worldwide, and being sold out for a year there are no more doubts in third party developers' minds that the Wii is a viable platform.

You can continue to listen to posters on this board who have been predicting the failure of the Wii since day 1, and you can continue to believe them when they tell you that third party publishers are ignoring the Wii inspite of all evidence to the contrary.

Why will the Wii never get a hardcore game?  What about SMG, Metroid Prime 3, Mario Kart, Smash Bros?  Where are the Xbox 360/PS3 substitutes for these games?  RE 4, Scarface, Godfather, MOH 2, Call of Duty 3, Manhunt, Brothers in Arms, these are all substitutes for the games listed above.  They may not be as good, but most of them are solid in and of themselves.  Notwithstanding most gamers have PCs that would play those games and are not in need of a 360/PS3 to try these games. 

Wait until 2008.  Next years big 360/PS3 games missed 2007 releases.  That's why you know about them.  Most big 2008 games will be under wraps until E3.  This is because developers are pushing the games that are out now to consumers, not next years games.  Wait until next year.  I think we'll all be surprised at the support the Wii will garner. 

"most consumers in the broad market don't really want the 360/PS3 style of gaming."

Halo3 sales numbers would disagree with that statement. Besides what is the PS3 style of gaming? There are only two areas that are really Wii specific.

Party games that are build around motion detection. These have essentially sold the Wii. On the other hand how do you want to improve them? More games, better graphics? This is not what has made them great, an ugly little game like Wii Sports was amazingly fun when played with other people, I don't think Wii Sports 2 will be "better".

The Wii control as "lightgun" for rail-shooters like RE-UC or in First Person Shooters. This is definitely an improvement, on the other hand FPS are not essentially new or different from 360 type of gaming.

I don't think the Wii is a fad but I think Party games are one. They will sell less and less. In the end classic games will decide if the Wii will win this generation.

Ouch. Remind me never to keep anything in my sig that could bite me in the ass...

On the topic, he's right, and I have mixed feelings on the subject.

As a hardcore gamer, I don't like the idea of the market drifting away from my favorite medium, but I think the real truth here is that hardcore games can do well on the Wii, they just need to be designed FOR the Wii.

RE4 is a great example of a game which is hardcore but still sold incredibly well, and it was a port from last gen. Did it matter that it was a port? No. Did it matter that it was hardcore? Again, no. It sold well because it was an excellent game and excellent games will sell well.

I know the talk about lapsed gamers is real because I personally WAS a lapsed gamer. At the end of the last gen, I had no intention of ever buying another console. When I saw the Wiimote, though, all of that changed pretty dramatically.

But I didn't come back to gaming to play non-games. I came back because of what I knew the Wiimote could do for hardcore gaming. There are just too many ways the controller can make hardcore gaming better: FPS aiming, stabbing with weapons, punching enemies, etc. The fact that devs have yet to really harness this doesn't change the fact that it's readily possible to do so.

So yeah, I hope the Wii can become more of a home for the hardcore base than it is now, and all it'll really take is a few solid hardcore titles to shift the balance.