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Forums - Sales - Malstrom: Why Project Cafe will fail

Mr Khan said:

Quite frankly they don't have the capacity to, and hence why they try to serve multiple segments with one sitting.

Do they though? I'm willing to bet that Nintendo can make games with more universal appeal than they're currently doing. When was the last time you heard even the "hardcore" say that they hate 2D Mario, for instance? The (few) complaints I heard about NSMBWii were that it rehashed the old games too much, not that 2D platformers are a thing of the past. What part of Wii Play Motion is meant to serve multiple segments? Can we really say that Wii Party was meant to have universal appeal?



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Albion said:

I have always hated racing games all my life and with 3D on the 3DS i can now judge depth and all of a sudden I cant stop playing that racing game. Its Fun as Ballz.  Cause the frustration is gone.. Its just me and the game and pure fun. Its like Malstrom explained why Normal people don't play 3D games. Things get in the way of the fun.

Will the ability for Race car games fan's to judge depth now start to make them hate race car games because its  easyer to play because you can now judge depth much faster then befor?

It may in fact only grow this Car gamer fan's love of racing games.



I don't see how your story has anything to do with what I said.

Racing has always benefitted from 3D, because it does not change the fundemental gameplay.

2D to 3D platformers are way different. Your analogy does not apply outside of racing games.



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noname2200 said:
Mr Khan said:

Quite frankly they don't have the capacity to, and hence why they try to serve multiple segments with one sitting.

Do they though? I'm willing to bet that Nintendo can make games with more universal appeal than they're currently doing. When was the last time you heard even the "hardcore" say that they hate 2D Mario, for instance? The (few) complaints I heard about NSMBWii were that it rehashed the old games too much, not that 2D platformers are a thing of the past. What part of Wii Play Motion is meant to serve multiple segments? Can we really say that Wii Party was meant to have universal appeal?

That's more explaining the mentality behind their retweaking of franchises like 3D Mario, Zelda, and even Metroid. They're trying to find out how to make those games appeal more because they want to make those games, yet also want them to suit needs that games like NSMBWii suited. They make many games that just suit one kind of gamer, but they've been orienting a lot of franchises towards the middle



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

Mr Khan said:
noname2200 said:
Mr Khan said:

Quite frankly they don't have the capacity to, and hence why they try to serve multiple segments with one sitting.

Do they though? I'm willing to bet that Nintendo can make games with more universal appeal than they're currently doing. When was the last time you heard even the "hardcore" say that they hate 2D Mario, for instance? The (few) complaints I heard about NSMBWii were that it rehashed the old games too much, not that 2D platformers are a thing of the past. What part of Wii Play Motion is meant to serve multiple segments? Can we really say that Wii Party was meant to have universal appeal?

That's more explaining the mentality behind their retweaking of franchises like 3D Mario, Zelda, and even Metroid. They're trying to find out how to make those games appeal more because they want to make those games, yet also want them to suit needs that games like NSMBWii suited. They make many games that just suit one kind of gamer, but they've been orienting a lot of franchises towards the middle

But as you pointed out earlier, they don't have the resources to do everything themselves, so why would they spend time targetting just one type of gamer? More importantly, if you have finite and insufficient resources to accomplish something, would you throw out a proven winning formula? Especially when you're hoping that others will soon come in and patch any deficiencies you might have?

There's a discrepancy between what Nintendo's actually doing and what we've posited they might be aiming for. Either they're fools who aren't doing what's logical, or they've got a different goal.



RolStoppable said:
noname2200 said:

<snip>

There's a discrepancy between what Nintendo's actually doing and what we've posited they might be aiming for. Either they're fools who aren't doing what's logical, or they've got a different goal.

Those two things aren't mutually exclusive.

I wrote that poorly.



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KungKras said:
Albion said:
 

I have always hated racing games all my life and with 3D on the 3DS i can now judge depth and all of a sudden I cant stop playing that racing game. Its Fun as Ballz.  Cause the frustration is gone.. Its just me and the game and pure fun. Its like Malstrom explained why Normal people don't play 3D games. Things get in the way of the fun.

Will the ability for Race car games fan's to judge depth now start to make them hate race car games because its  easyer to play because you can now judge depth much faster then befor?

It may in fact only grow this Car gamer fan's love of racing games.



I don't see how your story has anything to do with what I said.

Racing has always benefitted from 3D, because it does not change the fundemental gameplay.

2D to 3D platformers are way different. Your analogy does not apply outside of racing games.

It works for every type of games. Thats why Polished games do much better then ruff ones.

Technology is being used to fix a problem that was stomping casual players from enjoying the game.  List of things that make 3D worlds no fun and make me quit them.

-Annoying camera view   (most 3D games iv been able to play to the end have very polished camera work)
-Hard to look around with ease
-Can't judge distances for jumping

If you take away the above problems Ill start enjoying and buying 3D games. The same way I now am looking forward to more racing games on the 3DS.

Or instead lets Turn everything into a 2D platformer Like that genius Malstrom says.    Wahoo!! 2D race games.  

Just like adding  Motion Control's last generation. This gen they will add tool's to smooth out whats been keeping the casual crowd from jumping into hard core games, by making the experience more intuitive and easy. 

And at the same time, that will set it apart from the competition.




KungKras said:
Mr Khan said:
RolStoppable said:
Albion said:

@RolStoppable

what you and malstrom don't see is, Nintendo is trying to expand its market.  They want to use technologies to make the Game cube and N64 3D games so easy they become fun to the normal people. The none tek people like malstrom says.

Bring the Hard Core games to the mass markets by taking all the annoying things out with  tools so they are as simple as 2D side scrollers

I don't know if they can pull it off. but if they do. they are opening up a new market to tap into.

Um, that's exactly what Malstrom sees Nintendo doing. What Nintendo is trying to do isn't unlike trying to add ingredients to chocolate ice-cream until you can sell it as vanilla ice-cream. Now the obvious question is: Why don't you just sell chocolate ice-cream AND vanilla ice-cream instead of trying to replace vanilla with fake vanilla? People know what they want and if they order vanilla ice-cream, then they better get vanilla. If they don't get served, they go elsewhere. And if they don't get served elsewhere, they buy nothing. In either case, they don't buy Nintendo products. That's the risk Nintendo is running into and they have been there before (Nintendo 64 and Gamecube).

How does an ice-cream business expand? By offering as many flavors as possible and by keeping the quality of its bestselling flavors as high as possible. What does Nintendo do? They seriously consider to reduce the selection for the customer and even worse, they try to replace the source of their success by something else. This is insane.

And nobody's saying their not. Quite frankly they don't have the capacity to, and hence why they try to serve multiple segments with one sitting. This would be an advantage to garnering broader third party support, as again it would leave Nintendo free to be Nintendo, and they would have less of an excuse to make big core-ish games. The best alternative for Nintendo in the short term (though the long term solution is more development teams and R&D capacity, which they are also addressing)

Once upon a time, that was considered one of Nintendo's strengths, to be able to build games to appeal across demographics.

Malstrom's ideas are like a radical political or religious ideology, he started off addressing real ideas and phenomenons in a way that the public needed, but as time has gone on, he's just twisted his own ideas around into this void that's quite frankly hostile to Nintendo and hostile to gaming. Cancerous, as i've said before.

If Nintendo was serious about serving as many segments of the market as possible, they would not have made Galaxy 2.

Also, if gaming stopped making the games that you like, and started to even show hostility to making the games you like, then wouldn't you be hostile towards the game industry?

From how I see it, his ideas are the same as when the Wii was new. It's Nintnedo that changed.


But they also made Wii Party and are making Wii Play Motion. I think they are making games for as many segments as they can. The 3DS is ticking along okay. It has a decent range of software with NES, SNES, DS and Wii values. I show people the AR and Face Raiders and they get very excited. I think this may well do better than Malstrom thinks. It remains to be seen, however, and he has valid concerns.

 

Tricky position for Nintendo as Brain Training and Nintendogs are not games that need graphical overhauls and those are the games that really kick-started the DS.



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noname2200 said:
bazmeistergen said:


Have to say, off-topic, Wii Party totally rules.

Meh. It can't hold a candle to Dokapon Kingdom.


But it can hold a flamethrower to those that say Nintendo have stopped making games for the 'casual' market. :)



Yes.

www.spacemag.org - contribute your stuff... satire, comics, ideas, debate, stupidy stupid etc.

RolStoppable said:
JGarret said:

 

The SNES actually belongs to the wrong direction, but it usually isn't perceived that way because it still came out on top during the fourth generation. I have little to no doubt that the 3DS will sell more than the NGP, but that, just like the SNES, doesn't signal that Nintendo was doing the right things.


That the SNES was the wrong direction is a very shortsighted view, and it just shows how even fairly intelligent people like Malstrom, know so much less about this industry than Nintendo.

 

NES, 64 and Wii were innovators

SNES, GC and Wii2 are, by comparison, pretty minor upgrades.

 

The short sighted person looks at this and says that the NES outsold the SNES, N64 > GC, and the Wii > Wii2, and that it is of course a bad thing to sell less than ones predecessor. However, it is essential to the whole process to release them anyway. Most third parties still haven't worked out how to make a good motion controlled game, but fortunately next gen will kill off any that aren't able to work it out (Except for a few PCcentric devs like blizzard)



So what are you guys talking about again? Just because Nintendo changes the plan doesn't mean they would've done any better had they kept their original plan or MO or however you wish to describe it.



Tease.