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Forums - Sales Discussion - Malstrom: Why Project Cafe will fail

Albion on 23 April 2011
RolStoppable said:
Albion said:

@RolStoppable

what you and malstrom don't see is, Nintendo is trying to expand its market.  They want to use technologies to make the Game cube and N64 3D games so easy they become fun to the normal people. The none tek people like malstrom says.

Bring the Hard Core games to the mass markets by taking all the annoying things out with  tools so they are as simple as 2D side scrollers

I don't know if they can pull it off. but if they do. they are opening up a new market to tap into.

Um, that's exactly what Malstrom sees Nintendo doing. What Nintendo is trying to do isn't unlike trying to add ingredients to chocolate ice-cream until you can sell it as vanilla ice-cream. Now the obvious question is: Why don't you just sell chocolate ice-cream AND vanilla ice-cream instead of trying to replace vanilla with fake vanilla? People know what they want and if they order vanilla ice-cream, then they better get vanilla. If they don't get served, they go elsewhere. And if they don't get served elsewhere, they buy nothing. In either case, they don't buy Nintendo products. That's the risk Nintendo is running into and they have been there before (Nintendo 64 and Gamecube).

How does an ice-cream business expand? By offering as many flavors as possible and by keeping the quality of its bestselling flavors as high as possible. What does Nintendo do? They seriously consider to reduce the selection for the customer and even worse, they try to replace the source of their success by something else. This is insane.

Yes it is insane.  (the Wii looked insane too)

But Nintendo will try.   I still say if they do it right they can succeed. Small chance but still could work.

Why?  Cause I have always hated racing games all my life and with 3D on the 3DS i can now judge depth and all of a sudden I cant stop playing that racing game. Its Fun as Ballz.  Cause the frustration is gone.. Its just me and the game and pure fun. Its like Malstrom explained why Normal people don't play 3D games. Things get in the way of the fun.

Thats what Nintendo wants to do. I wont count them out until I see what kind of tools they will add to make 3D worlds frustration free.   Once i see the product will all be in a better situation to judge. including Mr Malstrom.

Malstrom is saying normal people don't want frustration in there games and Nintendo is saying your right. Will take away the frustration with technologies next generation. 




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Mr Khan on 23 April 2011
RolStoppable said:
Albion said:

@RolStoppable

what you and malstrom don't see is, Nintendo is trying to expand its market.  They want to use technologies to make the Game cube and N64 3D games so easy they become fun to the normal people. The none tek people like malstrom says.

Bring the Hard Core games to the mass markets by taking all the annoying things out with  tools so they are as simple as 2D side scrollers

I don't know if they can pull it off. but if they do. they are opening up a new market to tap into.

Um, that's exactly what Malstrom sees Nintendo doing. What Nintendo is trying to do isn't unlike trying to add ingredients to chocolate ice-cream until you can sell it as vanilla ice-cream. Now the obvious question is: Why don't you just sell chocolate ice-cream AND vanilla ice-cream instead of trying to replace vanilla with fake vanilla? People know what they want and if they order vanilla ice-cream, then they better get vanilla. If they don't get served, they go elsewhere. And if they don't get served elsewhere, they buy nothing. In either case, they don't buy Nintendo products. That's the risk Nintendo is running into and they have been there before (Nintendo 64 and Gamecube).

How does an ice-cream business expand? By offering as many flavors as possible and by keeping the quality of its bestselling flavors as high as possible. What does Nintendo do? They seriously consider to reduce the selection for the customer and even worse, they try to replace the source of their success by something else. This is insane.

And nobody's saying their not. Quite frankly they don't have the capacity to, and hence why they try to serve multiple segments with one sitting. This would be an advantage to garnering broader third party support, as again it would leave Nintendo free to be Nintendo, and they would have less of an excuse to make big core-ish games. The best alternative for Nintendo in the short term (though the long term solution is more development teams and R&D capacity, which they are also addressing)

Once upon a time, that was considered one of Nintendo's strengths, to be able to build games to appeal across demographics.

Malstrom's ideas are like a radical political or religious ideology, he started off addressing real ideas and phenomenons in a way that the public needed, but as time has gone on, he's just twisted his own ideas around into this void that's quite frankly hostile to Nintendo and hostile to gaming. Cancerous, as i've said before.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

KungKras on 23 April 2011
Aiddon said:
KungKras said:
 

Because Malstrom brought up many valid arguments about what could be Nintendo's direction with its new console?

Seriously, even though we haven't seen the system yet, we can see indications about what's going on with Nintendo from interviews and investor's breefings, and public speeches and such. He isn't basing his assumptions on the mindless rumors that have been circulating lataly, but on what clues Nintendo themselves have given regarding their direction.

Hell, this is the same as Other M. People were all like "Malstrom hasn't even played the game, we don't even have gameplay and screenshots, how the hell can he comment on the story and how the game will be like" And yet, Other M was just the trainwreck of a Metroid he predicted it to be.

How? Because he looked at the developer interviews with Sakamoto and made the correct assumptions about how he would make the game. Malstrom has probably seen the same trend with developers before, and could predict based on that. That's what happens when you have been familliar with something for a long time. You see patterns that newcomers can't see.

Uh THESE ARE RUMORS! Seriously, nothing has been confirmed, especially from Nintendo.  This jerkwad is barking because he knows he has a small number of people that will listen to him, especially since it's the hot thing to talk about right now

He has even cited speeches from Iwata. As I said, he is not basing his assumptions off of the recent rumours. He is basing his assumptions on the 3DS direction, and what Nintendo developers say.



I LOVE ICELAND!

KungKras on 23 April 2011
Albion said:
KungKras said:
Albion said:

@RolStoppable

what you and malstrom don't see is, Nintendo is trying to expand its market.  They want to use technologies to make the Game cube and N64 3D games so easy they become fun to the normal people. The none tek people like malstrom says.

Bring the Hard Core games to the mass markets by taking all the annoying things out with  tools so they are as simple as 2D side scrollers

I don't know if they can pull it off. but if they do. they are opening up a new market to tap into.

 

 


This is exactly what he has been complaining about. He says that's what Nintendo is trying to do (especially with 3D Mario) And it's not going to work, because the mass market simply doesn't want those games regardless of how easy they make them.

Yes.   But they will still try.   If they succeed in making 3D games as easy as 2D games to navigate they could make a ton of money...

Cause then they would be Hard core Friendly and casual friendly all at the same time. Like trying to hit 2 birds with one stone.   I don't  pretend to know if they will succeed or not, like malstrom is.

I haven't Doomed there chances.  Still Its not like Nintendo is floating clueless without a plan here.

They said with the Wii they wanted to capture both market. This next consul will be friendly to the hard core, and try to include the casual by making 3D navigation as easy as 2D side scroller.

Its not a bad idea. Will it work? sounds like a hard battle to me but who knows.

It won't work, because even if they did it sucessfully, what would happen to the people who like 3D Mario as it is?

Even worse, if they fail, they will alienate both audiences.



I LOVE ICELAND!

KungKras on 23 April 2011
Mr Khan said:
RolStoppable said:
Albion said:

@RolStoppable

what you and malstrom don't see is, Nintendo is trying to expand its market.  They want to use technologies to make the Game cube and N64 3D games so easy they become fun to the normal people. The none tek people like malstrom says.

Bring the Hard Core games to the mass markets by taking all the annoying things out with  tools so they are as simple as 2D side scrollers

I don't know if they can pull it off. but if they do. they are opening up a new market to tap into.

Um, that's exactly what Malstrom sees Nintendo doing. What Nintendo is trying to do isn't unlike trying to add ingredients to chocolate ice-cream until you can sell it as vanilla ice-cream. Now the obvious question is: Why don't you just sell chocolate ice-cream AND vanilla ice-cream instead of trying to replace vanilla with fake vanilla? People know what they want and if they order vanilla ice-cream, then they better get vanilla. If they don't get served, they go elsewhere. And if they don't get served elsewhere, they buy nothing. In either case, they don't buy Nintendo products. That's the risk Nintendo is running into and they have been there before (Nintendo 64 and Gamecube).

How does an ice-cream business expand? By offering as many flavors as possible and by keeping the quality of its bestselling flavors as high as possible. What does Nintendo do? They seriously consider to reduce the selection for the customer and even worse, they try to replace the source of their success by something else. This is insane.

And nobody's saying their not. Quite frankly they don't have the capacity to, and hence why they try to serve multiple segments with one sitting. This would be an advantage to garnering broader third party support, as again it would leave Nintendo free to be Nintendo, and they would have less of an excuse to make big core-ish games. The best alternative for Nintendo in the short term (though the long term solution is more development teams and R&D capacity, which they are also addressing)

Once upon a time, that was considered one of Nintendo's strengths, to be able to build games to appeal across demographics.

Malstrom's ideas are like a radical political or religious ideology, he started off addressing real ideas and phenomenons in a way that the public needed, but as time has gone on, he's just twisted his own ideas around into this void that's quite frankly hostile to Nintendo and hostile to gaming. Cancerous, as i've said before.

If Nintendo was serious about serving as many segments of the market as possible, they would not have made Galaxy 2.

Also, if gaming stopped making the games that you like, and started to even show hostility to making the games you like, then wouldn't you be hostile towards the game industry?

From how I see it, his ideas are the same as when the Wii was new. It's Nintnedo that changed.



I LOVE ICELAND!

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Albion on 23 April 2011
KungKras said:
Albion said:
KungKras said:
Albion said:

@RolStoppable

what you and malstrom don't see is, Nintendo is trying to expand its market.  They want to use technologies to make the Game cube and N64 3D games so easy they become fun to the normal people. The none tek people like malstrom says.

Bring the Hard Core games to the mass markets by taking all the annoying things out with  tools so they are as simple as 2D side scrollers

I don't know if they can pull it off. but if they do. they are opening up a new market to tap into.

 

 


This is exactly what he has been complaining about. He says that's what Nintendo is trying to do (especially with 3D Mario) And it's not going to work, because the mass market simply doesn't want those games regardless of how easy they make them.

Yes.   But they will still try.   If they succeed in making 3D games as easy as 2D games to navigate they could make a ton of money...

Cause then they would be Hard core Friendly and casual friendly all at the same time. Like trying to hit 2 birds with one stone.   I don't  pretend to know if they will succeed or not, like malstrom is.

I haven't Doomed there chances.  Still Its not like Nintendo is floating clueless without a plan here.

They said with the Wii they wanted to capture both market. This next consul will be friendly to the hard core, and try to include the casual by making 3D navigation as easy as 2D side scroller.

Its not a bad idea. Will it work? sounds like a hard battle to me but who knows.

It won't work, because even if they did it sucessfully, what would happen to the people who like 3D Mario as it is?

Even worse, if they fail, they will alienate both audiences.

I have always hated racing games all my life and with 3D on the 3DS i can now judge depth and all of a sudden I cant stop playing that racing game. Its Fun as Ballz.  Cause the frustration is gone.. Its just me and the game and pure fun. Its like Malstrom explained why Normal people don't play 3D games. Things get in the way of the fun.

Will the ability for Race car games fan's to judge depth now start to make them hate race car games because its  easyer to play because you can now judge depth much faster then befor?

It may in fact only grow this Car gamer fan's love of racing games.





Naum on 23 April 2011

My God E3 can't come soon enough...



If it isn't turnbased it isn't worth playing   (mostly)

And shepherds we shall be,

For Thee, my Lord, for Thee. Power hath descended forth from Thy hand, That our feet may swiftly carry out Thy command. So we shall flow a river forth to Thee And teeming with souls shall it ever be. In Nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritūs Sancti. -----The Boondock Saints

noname2200 on 23 April 2011
bazmeistergen said:


Have to say, off-topic, Wii Party totally rules.

Meh. It can't hold a candle to Dokapon Kingdom.



Aiddon on 23 April 2011
Mr Khan said:

Malstrom's ideas are like a radical political or religious ideology, he started off addressing real ideas and phenomenons in a way that the public needed, but as time has gone on, he's just twisted his own ideas around into this void that's quite frankly hostile to Nintendo and hostile to gaming. Cancerous, as i've said before.


So he's Ayn Rand?



noname2200 on 23 April 2011
Albion said:

Malstrom is saying normal people don't want frustration in there games and Nintendo is saying your right. Will take away the frustration with technologies next generation.

According to Miyamoto, Nintendo's literally been trying to do this since Mario 64. They've done a lot to tune the games for just this end. They've even included an instructional DVD (...) to do this. And fifteen years later, they're no closer to their goal than they were before; judging from the sales, they've actually regressed!*

Their latest attempt to reconcile the two markets revolves around using the 3D effect to let you gauge depth. Read that again. They think being unable to gauge depth accounts for the 3:1 sale discrepancy between Galaxy and NSMB! Now do you realize how absurd their stance is?!

Now take a second step back, and ask yourself "if they know that 2D Mario outsells 3D Mario, why do they insist on trying to force the latter on the former?" I assume you occasionally hit up burger joints and the like. Suppose that one day your favorite burger place replaced all the ground beef patties with Veggieburgers.™ How would you feel? And suppose that you complain and, in order to pacify you, they  try slapping on more condiments on the veggieburgers, or switching the buns, rather than going back to the beefy goodness you've told them you love. Tell me, would you bother going back there?

And if you wouldn't, then why would 2D Mario fans come back for more 3D Mario?

*I don't think this is actually the case, since 64's sales will have been inflated by virtue of being the first 3D Mario, but that's another matter.