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Forums - Sony Discussion - Sony granted temporary restraining order and impoundment against GeoHotz

thranx on 29 January 2011

The more i read of geohot the more i like him. Seems to me he is ready to make a stand and I for hope he and consumers win.

"Note to Sony:
It’s apparent you don’t care about your reputation with consumers, and I can almost understand your point there.
Few people consider buying a TV or laptop a moral choice, and the consumer base is quite large.
But talented developers are in much shorter supply, and take it from one personally, who you choose to code for is much more of a moral choice.
The programmers you will one day be looking to hire are the ones reading the tech news sites right now.
And they will remember."

Geohot

 

And again, this is not about piracy.



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spiffiness on 31 January 2011
thranx said:

The more i read of geohot the more i like him. Seems to me he is ready to make a stand and I for hope he and consumers win.

"Note to Sony:
It’s apparent you don’t care about your reputation with consumers, and I can almost understand your point there.
Few people consider buying a TV or laptop a moral choice, and the consumer base is quite large.
But talented developers are in much shorter supply, and take it from one personally, who you choose to code for is much more of a moral choice.
The programmers you will one day be looking to hire are the ones reading the tech news sites right now.
And they will remember."

Geohot

 

And again, this is not about piracy.

IMO, this sounds presumptuous. This guy is hurting legitimate talented developers by helping other people to steal their work, and he dares to speak about morals? He can't be naive enough to think that nobody would use his info to steal software. Morally, he should've kept the info to himself, or better yet, done something more productive with his talents. Sony has proven to be a great supporter of legitimate developers with their trust in smaller companies and ideas that no other publisher would believe in, and this guy is only hurting that. 



Currently playing: Gran Turismo 5
Just finished: Infamous 2

whatever on 31 January 2011
kitler53 said:
NiKKoM said:

You know what would suck? If he used his daddy's PC to hack it.. :D

anyway glad I don't live in california cause apparently, buying a piece of hardware for $300 does not mean you own it and can do what you like with it, under California Law... >_>


true story -- i made a copy of your house key.  it's only a copy so it's not stealing and thus completely legal.  being the the freedom fighter i am i distributed that key to everyone in your neighboorhood.  how was i suppose to know that the guy who has been sent to jail 3 times already would use that key to break into your house, steal your shit, and rape your wife.  i mean, as i handed out the keys i told him not do that so i am of course completely blameless.

really, when you think about it this hole thing is your fault.  you should have known i was going to try and make copies of your household protection mechanisms.  you really should have had a more secure house.  i hope you learned your lesson.

How is this argument related to anything in the topic at hand?  Yes it sounds likes it's relevant, which would explain why people on here seem to think it is so clever, but it actually has no relevance.  Your giving away a key to something that you don't own.  This would be similar to giving away a key (real or virtual) to Sony's headquarters or Sony's proprietary files.  This is clearly illegal.

An appicable scenario might be that the builder of yours and others houses decides that he doesn't want anyone to have a bathroom on the first floor and builds the house in a way that prevents you and others from doing it (I know, not realistic, but it is your crappy analogy to begin with).  So now I figure out how to get around the builders restrictions and I decide to tell the other owners how to do it as well.  None of this should be illegal because I own my house and the other owners own theirs.  This is what Sony is trying to do by preventing you from using something you bought in a way that you want.

Figuring out how to bypass the restrictions put on by Sony should not be illegal.  It should be my right as a consumer.  If other's use it for piracy, then Sony's issue is with them.  My rights as a consumer should outweigh any potential piracy losses from a corporation.  The corporation should figure out a way to allow my custom use while preventing piracy.  If it can't, then get out of the business and let someone else figure it out.



thranx on 01 February 2011
spiffiness said:
thranx said:

The more i read of geohot the more i like him. Seems to me he is ready to make a stand and I for hope he and consumers win.

"Note to Sony:
It’s apparent you don’t care about your reputation with consumers, and I can almost understand your point there.
Few people consider buying a TV or laptop a moral choice, and the consumer base is quite large.
But talented developers are in much shorter supply, and take it from one personally, who you choose to code for is much more of a moral choice.
The programmers you will one day be looking to hire are the ones reading the tech news sites right now.
And they will remember."

Geohot

 

And again, this is not about piracy.

IMO, this sounds presumptuous. This guy is hurting legitimate talented developers by helping other people to steal their work, and he dares to speak about morals? He can't be naive enough to think that nobody would use his info to steal software. Morally, he should've kept the info to himself, or better yet, done something more productive with his talents. Sony has proven to be a great supporter of legitimate developers with their trust in smaller companies and ideas that no other publisher would believe in, and this guy is only hurting that. 

That would be great if he did pirate and if he did use others people code. But he does not and this still isn't about piracy. No way arund that. I will keep saying it. This is not about piracy. piracy is not mentioned. I dont even know if software is mentioned in the law suit.

Whats so morall about sony stealing from us (we had otherOS, now we don't).

 

But what this is about is a consumer bying a product and than simply doing what he wants with it. I mean what is so wrong about that?

 

I will agree, any piracy is illegal, and sony should go after p[irates and sue their pants off. But that is not what they are sueing for, they are sueing to gain control of what you do with your hardware after you buy it.

I will also agree that accessing the psn with hacked software(ie pirated games) and or hacking games played online on the psn is also illegal and sony should go after them. Why they choose not I do not understand.



Mr.Metralha on 01 February 2011

WHo would tell Geohotz is a 21 years old.



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MARCUSDJACKSON on 02 February 2011
Kasz216 said:
MARCUSDJACKSON said:
Kasz216 said:
MARCUSDJACKSON said:
Rath said:
MARCUSDJACKSON said:
kitler53 said:
Kasz216 said:
...


You think they're the same people?    You do realize that hackers don't actual gain ANY benefits from the hacking they do right?  Outside being able to apply the same hacks to their products?

This hack by the way... doesn't even allow piracy. 

"breaking into anything is wrong".  I thought you were a democrat?   Your strange Neo-conservative view here is weird.

Should it be illegal to break into your own house?  Afterall that's what he was breaking into... his own PS3.

 

If someone gave everybody the keys to break into their own house... should it be illegal?

no see, this is where are wrong.  when you buy a ps3 you by the hardware NOT the software.  if geohotz wants to  bedazzled his ps3 -- go right ahead.  but you, i, or geohot do not own the software on the ps3, that's not part of the deal.

i own a copy of windows -- what i don't own is the right to modify and redistribute the code because i don't own it.  if i wanted to do that i'd have to pony up the 8 or whatever BILLION dollars it would cost to buy those rights.

it really begs the question does anybody know wht copyright infringement is or means?

and if they did we would still be having this conversation.

i know everybody here knows wht it means but when it comes to hacking some people throw laws out the window.

Did he break copyright though? I do know what copyright is and that code is protected by it, but he hasn't published any code as such has he?

clever! found a hole in my argument did we. thats reall good and it was an obvious hole, but the fact that others can find this code out is the problem which will create the situation for copyright violation, piracy and more.

and just because he didn't doesn't mean others can't use his technology to do so. as well all know and can tell nothing is  hack proof and neither is jail brake.

Which is completely irrelvent.  "someone else could do something bad with it!" is pointless.

Once again, that's the same reasoning that has people sue gun companies for shooting deaths.


well thats stupid, but you have no rights to the sofeware nor the ability to brake into hardwar


 A court of law would and HAS disagreed with you.  You do have the right to hack the software under Fair Use to get the software out of the way of using the hardware how you want.

Again you are being COMPLETELY illogical and intellectually dishonest.

can't be dishonest with my self can i? well i can but i stand by wht i say, and i'm sure another court would disagree with that court.



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MARCUSDJACKSON on 02 February 2011
kitler53 said:
MARCUSDJACKSON said:
Rath said:
MARCUSDJACKSON said:
kitler53 said:
Kasz216 said:
...


You think they're the same people?    You do realize that hackers don't actual gain ANY benefits from the hacking they do right?  Outside being able to apply the same hacks to their products?

This hack by the way... doesn't even allow piracy. 

"breaking into anything is wrong".  I thought you were a democrat?   Your strange Neo-conservative view here is weird.

Should it be illegal to break into your own house?  Afterall that's what he was breaking into... his own PS3.

 

If someone gave everybody the keys to break into their own house... should it be illegal?

no see, this is where are wrong.  when you buy a ps3 you by the hardware NOT the software.  if geohotz wants to  bedazzled his ps3 -- go right ahead.  but you, i, or geohot do not own the software on the ps3, that's not part of the deal.

i own a copy of windows -- what i don't own is the right to modify and redistribute the code because i don't own it.  if i wanted to do that i'd have to pony up the 8 or whatever BILLION dollars it would cost to buy those rights.

it really begs the question does anybody know wht copyright infringement is or means?

and if they did we would still be having this conversation.

i know everybody here knows wht it means but when it comes to hacking some people throw laws out the window.

Did he break copyright though? I do know what copyright is and that code is protected by it, but he hasn't published any code as such has he?

clever! found a hole in my argument did we. thats reall good and it was an obvious hole, but the fact that others can find this code out is the problem which will create the situation for copyright violation, piracy and more.

and just because he didn't doesn't mean others can't use his technology to do so. as well all know and can tell nothing is  hack proof and neither is jail brake.

not really a hole actually.

first off: http://www.lib.byu.edu/departs/copyright/tutorial/module1/page5.htm

secondly: "...copyright is automatic and need not be obtained through official registration with any government office. Once an idea has been reduced to tangible form, for example by securing it in a fixed medium (such as a drawing, sheet music, photograph, a videotape, or a computer file), the copyright holder is entitled to enforce his or her exclusive rights."


 is exactly wht im saying. its my whole argument. thanks



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MARCUSDJACKSON on 02 February 2011
Rath said:
MARCUSDJACKSON said:
 

clever! found a hole in my argument did we. thats reall good and it was an obvious hole, but the fact that others can find this code out is the problem which will create the situation for copyright violation, piracy and more.

and just because he didn't doesn't mean others can't use his technology to do so. as well all know and can tell nothing is  hack proof and neither is jail brake.

Well actually him enabling others to break the law doesn't mean he himself broke the law.

aiding and abetting! thats how i see it!



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-Newcloud- on 02 February 2011
thranx said:
spiffiness said:
thranx said:

The more i read of geohot the more i like him. Seems to me he is ready to make a stand and I for hope he and consumers win.

"Note to Sony:
It’s apparent you don’t care about your reputation with consumers, and I can almost understand your point there.
Few people consider buying a TV or laptop a moral choice, and the consumer base is quite large.
But talented developers are in much shorter supply, and take it from one personally, who you choose to code for is much more of a moral choice.
The programmers you will one day be looking to hire are the ones reading the tech news sites right now.
And they will remember."

Geohot

 

And again, this is not about piracy.

IMO, this sounds presumptuous. This guy is hurting legitimate talented developers by helping other people to steal their work, and he dares to speak about morals? He can't be naive enough to think that nobody would use his info to steal software. Morally, he should've kept the info to himself, or better yet, done something more productive with his talents. Sony has proven to be a great supporter of legitimate developers with their trust in smaller companies and ideas that no other publisher would believe in, and this guy is only hurting that. 

That would be great if he did pirate and if he did use others people code. But he does not and this still isn't about piracy. No way arund that. I will keep saying it. This is not about piracy. piracy is not mentioned. I dont even know if software is mentioned in the law suit.

Whats so morall about sony stealing from us (we had otherOS, now we don't).

 

But what this is about is a consumer bying a product and than simply doing what he wants with it. I mean what is so wrong about that?

 

I will agree, any piracy is illegal, and sony should go after p[irates and sue their pants off. But that is not what they are sueing for, they are sueing to gain control of what you do with your hardware after you buy it.

I will also agree that accessing the psn with hacked software(ie pirated games) and or hacking games played online on the psn is also illegal and sony should go after them. Why they choose not I do not understand.

he should of kept hes mouth shut instead of putting it on the internet.. what did he think would happen. people would download the hack and not pirate for such a smart guy hes really stupid



MARCUSDJACKSON on 02 February 2011
-Newcloud- said:
thranx said:
spiffiness said:
thranx said:

The more i read of geohot the more i like him. Seems to me he is ready to make a stand and I for hope he and consumers win.

"Note to Sony:
It’s apparent you don’t care about your reputation with consumers, and I can almost understand your point there.
Few people consider buying a TV or laptop a moral choice, and the consumer base is quite large.
But talented developers are in much shorter supply, and take it from one personally, who you choose to code for is much more of a moral choice.
The programmers you will one day be looking to hire are the ones reading the tech news sites right now.
And they will remember."

Geohot

 

And again, this is not about piracy.

IMO, this sounds presumptuous. This guy is hurting legitimate talented developers by helping other people to steal their work, and he dares to speak about morals? He can't be naive enough to think that nobody would use his info to steal software. Morally, he should've kept the info to himself, or better yet, done something more productive with his talents. Sony has proven to be a great supporter of legitimate developers with their trust in smaller companies and ideas that no other publisher would believe in, and this guy is only hurting that. 

That would be great if he did pirate and if he did use others people code. But he does not and this still isn't about piracy. No way arund that. I will keep saying it. This is not about piracy. piracy is not mentioned. I dont even know if software is mentioned in the law suit.

Whats so morall about sony stealing from us (we had otherOS, now we don't).

 

But what this is about is a consumer bying a product and than simply doing what he wants with it. I mean what is so wrong about that?

 

I will agree, any piracy is illegal, and sony should go after p[irates and sue their pants off. But that is not what they are sueing for, they are sueing to gain control of what you do with your hardware after you buy it.

I will also agree that accessing the psn with hacked software(ie pirated games) and or hacking games played online on the psn is also illegal and sony should go after them. Why they choose not I do not understand.

he should of kept hes mouth shut instead of putting it on the internet.. what did he think would happen. people would download the hack and not pirate for such a smart guy hes really stupid

dito. thats my argument.



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