MARCUSDJACKSON said:
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He hasn't actually breached their exclusive rights so far as I can see, so I can't really tell what your argument is.
MARCUSDJACKSON said:
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He hasn't actually breached their exclusive rights so far as I can see, so I can't really tell what your argument is.
-Newcloud- said:
he should of kept hes mouth shut instead of putting it on the internet.. what did he think would happen. people would download the hack and not pirate for such a smart guy hes really stupid |
Most people like to publish they work they do or to help others achieve what they have done. Neither of which is illegal. my guess is he thought people would use it for what it was intended, installing other os on their ps3. Why no hate there for what sony did? or did you miss that? Again you guys can try to make this about piracy but it is not about piracy, no way to swing it that way. Again sony does not even say its about piracy why do you guys? Its about fair use of the equiptemnt you buy.
thranx said:
Most people like to publish they work they do or to help others achieve what they have done. Neither of which is illegal. my guess is he thought people would use it for what it was intended, installing other os on their ps3. Why no hate there for what sony did? or did you miss that? Again you guys can try to make this about piracy but it is not about piracy, no way to swing it that way. Again sony does not even say its about piracy why do you guys? Its about fair use of the equiptemnt you buy. |
Really, he thought that? Then he is the most naive person in the world. If he was really about homebrew, he wouldn't have tried to use otherOS to break into the console core. In fact, he is responsible for otherOS being taken away. Any hate regarding OtherOS should be directed at Geohotz for forcing Sony's hand. And you can't say, well it's still Sony's decision so it's their fault, because you can't expect them to sit around while people break through their security, they had to do something.
All this stuff about consumer rights, well, all is well and good until other people are affected negatively. Many of us hate what Geohotz has done because it has led to people's gaming experiences being ruined and has jeopardized the livelihoods of people bringing us the great games that we love. If he had used his skills to bring us something positive instead of breaking through security, there would be no discussion. Even though legally it may be within his rights, it doesn't make him morally right, and we have to support Sony on this.
Actually, if Geohotz wins and there is shown to be a legal loophole, it's possible (correct me if I'm wrong, I'm no lawyer) that future consoles operate on a license much like software. Mess with it and you're in legal trouble no matter what. Companies have to protect their investments somehow and I doubt the majority would care since they use the console for what it's intended anyway.
Currently playing: Gran Turismo 5
Just finished: Infamous 2
spiffiness said:
Really, he thought that? Then he is the most naive person in the world. If he was really about homebrew, he wouldn't have tried to use otherOS to break into the console core. In fact, he is responsible for otherOS being taken away. Any hate regarding OtherOS should be directed at Geohotz for forcing Sony's hand. And you can't say, well it's still Sony's decision so it's their fault, because you can't expect them to sit around while people break through their security, they had to do something. All this stuff about consumer rights, well, all is well and good until other people are affected negatively. Many of us hate what Geohotz has done because it has led to people's gaming experiences being ruined and has jeopardized the livelihoods of people bringing us the great games that we love. If he had used his skills to bring us something positive instead of breaking through security, there would be no discussion. Even though legally it may be within his rights, it doesn't make him morally right, and we have to support Sony on this. Actually, if Geohotz wins and there is shown to be a legal loophole, it's possible (correct me if I'm wrong, I'm no lawyer) that future consoles operate on a license much like software. Mess with it and you're in legal trouble no matter what. Companies have to protect their investments somehow and I doubt the majority would care since they use the console for what it's intended anyway. |
That is the exact opposite of what will happen if he wins. And is in fact what will happen if Sony wins, which is why I am so against it. If you can't see that then this is the problem here. I dont really care if it was sony/ms/nintendo/apple this will be bad for all consumers. People should look past that. It does not matter what gehot did to his own equiptemnt or what info he released. He did not violate copyright or pirate, both of which is illegal so why does sony not sue for that? Sony is trying to have rights over equiptment they no longer own. I do not know a whole lot about otherOS but I believe they still locked you out of using some of the hardware and that is why he was trying to bypass, not sure but it still has no bearing here.
thranx said:
That is the exact opposite of what will happen if he wins. And is in fact what will happen if Sony wins, which is why I am so against it. If you can't see that then this is the problem here. I dont really care if it was sony/ms/nintendo/apple this will be bad for all consumers. People should look past that. It does not matter what gehot did to his own equiptemnt or what info he released. He did not violate copyright or pirate, both of which is illegal so why does sony not sue for that? Sony is trying to have rights over equiptment they no longer own. I do not know a whole lot about otherOS but I believe they still locked you out of using some of the hardware and that is why he was trying to bypass, not sure but it still has no bearing here. |
Actually, reading the court document, SCEA is suing them for "violat[ing] the Digital Millenium Copyright Act," "contributory copyright infringement arising out of the Copyright Act ... as well as related state and common law claims for violation of the California Comprehensive Computer Data Access and Fraud Act, breach of contract, tortious interference with contractual relations, trespass and common law misappropriation." So yes, they are suing him for violating copyright. And piracy is mentioned in the document as "unauthorized access to and/or copying of PS3 Systems and other copyrighted works." Whether or not their accusation of enabling the latter has legal merit, I don't know, but in the second document, it says "plaintiff (Sony) has submitted substantial evidence showing that defendant George Hotz has violated the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, 17".
Hotz's defense so far has been to argue that the court has no jurisdiction over him (not in California?).
In regards to your last argument, why would Sony not want to plug that loophole, particularly if Geohotz wins? If Geohotz wins, that just means that the current terms of use are inadequate to protect their investment and they will make sure they are better protected next time, e.g. licensed hardware. Sure, the PS3 won't be protected and people can do whatever they want for now, but next gen? In the end all this does is hurt legitimate users by providing less functionality and more DRM. At least if they win this, they won't have to increase restrictions (as much).
Currently playing: Gran Turismo 5
Just finished: Infamous 2
wow, this is amazing. The level of lack of research of people on vgchartz never ceases to amaze me. People really need to read what's going on more and bother to understand the language being spoken. Rather than reading personal want's interest and misunderstandings into an opinion blog.
Geohotz material is not acquired by Sony. It's seized by the government while the dispute is in question. Considering that Geohotz and others reverse engineered their work which has been legal for many years. It's unlikely that Sony will "win" when it's all settled. The impounding of information is standard practice in any dispute.
example: an unpaid construction worker can put a "lean" on a construction site. During the "lean" the contractors are not allowed to work on the site. With other exceptions in place to work around such things.
I also love the amount of people who hate freedom and owner ship of property. Come and bitch about digital mediums suck and like to "own" a physical property, but bitch about people who want you to have freedom to use your property the way you want... You know what. You only own the disc and not the contents on it. You only purchased a license to use the content. Now imagine someday company decide they don't want you to use it for some bizaar reason and disable all hardware that let's you play the content on the disc, that's roughly the equivalent. Well if you like that then feel free to show support.
oh well. I'm wasting my time writing this. Ignorance is the act of willfully turning away knowledge. For some reason an all new form of "racism" is forming. Branding'ism and corporate sheep. I'm done.
Squilliam: On Vgcharts its a commonly accepted practice to twist the bounds of plausibility in order to support your argument or agenda so I think its pretty cool that this gives me the precedent to say whatever I damn well please.
no one cares about what he does to his console but the information that he leaked has led to pirating and hacks, it may not have been his intent but it happened. For those screaming about consumer freedom or whatever what about the people who don't pirate or hack and now their online experience is shit? Don't they have the right to play without getting fucked over by cheaters? The real victims are people that don't hack and play legit not fucking geohot.
Rath said:
He hasn't actually breached their exclusive rights so far as I can see, so I can't really tell what your argument is. |
breaking through the security systems of anything is wrong and with jailbreak the essentially wht he's done.
MARCUSDJACKSON said:
breaking through the security systems of anything is wrong and with jailbreak the essentially wht he's done. |
That's not how copyright works...
Rath said:
That's not how copyright works... |
we are going to start repeating our selves Rath, and while we were heading in an upward debate its now going in circles.
great debate but it ends here.