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Forums - Sony Discussion - Sony granted temporary restraining order and impoundment against GeoHotz

MARCUSDJACKSON on 28 January 2011
Rath said:
MARCUSDJACKSON said:
kitler53 said:
Kasz216 said:
...


You think they're the same people?    You do realize that hackers don't actual gain ANY benefits from the hacking they do right?  Outside being able to apply the same hacks to their products?

This hack by the way... doesn't even allow piracy. 

"breaking into anything is wrong".  I thought you were a democrat?   Your strange Neo-conservative view here is weird.

Should it be illegal to break into your own house?  Afterall that's what he was breaking into... his own PS3.

 

If someone gave everybody the keys to break into their own house... should it be illegal?

no see, this is where are wrong.  when you buy a ps3 you by the hardware NOT the software.  if geohotz wants to  bedazzled his ps3 -- go right ahead.  but you, i, or geohot do not own the software on the ps3, that's not part of the deal.

i own a copy of windows -- what i don't own is the right to modify and redistribute the code because i don't own it.  if i wanted to do that i'd have to pony up the 8 or whatever BILLION dollars it would cost to buy those rights.

it really begs the question does anybody know wht copyright infringement is or means?

and if they did we would still be having this conversation.

i know everybody here knows wht it means but when it comes to hacking some people throw laws out the window.

Did he break copyright though? I do know what copyright is and that code is protected by it, but he hasn't published any code as such has he?

clever! found a hole in my argument did we. thats reall good and it was an obvious hole, but the fact that others can find this code out is the problem which will create the situation for copyright violation, piracy and more.

and just because he didn't doesn't mean others can't use his technology to do so. as well all know and can tell nothing is  hack proof and neither is jail brake.



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MARCUSDJACKSON on 28 January 2011
Kasz216 said:
kitler53 said:
Kasz216 said:
...


You think they're the same people?    You do realize that hackers don't actual gain ANY benefits from the hacking they do right?  Outside being able to apply the same hacks to their products?

This hack by the way... doesn't even allow piracy. 

"breaking into anything is wrong".  I thought you were a democrat?   Your strange Neo-conservative view here is weird.

Should it be illegal to break into your own house?  Afterall that's what he was breaking into... his own PS3.

 

If someone gave everybody the keys to break into their own house... should it be illegal?

no see, this is where are wrong.  when you buy a ps3 you by the hardware NOT the software.  if geohotz wants to  bedazzled his ps3 -- go right ahead.  but you, i, or geohot do not own the software on the ps3, that's not part of the deal.

i own a copy of windows -- what i don't own is the right to modify and redistribute the code because i don't own it.  if i wanted to do that i'd have to pony up the 8 or whatever BILLION dollars it would cost to buy those rights.


No.  That is where YOU are wrong.

Look at the recent Iphone ruling.

If the software prevents you from doing something legal with the hardware you are perfectly free to hack said software under Fair Use.

If the security company you hired to protect your house if preventing you from enetering your house at 3 am because you agreed to not let anyone come in or out between 3&5.  You are perfectly allowed to break their shit and enter your own house.

All they can do is end your contract.

and brick your PS3
and solutions star pouring in. see yall next wk



 Zarx's unofficial The Witcher 3    

Official Playstation Vita Thread!

write reveiws, articles, share thoughts, and expand on discussion like never before on gamewise.co/brainwaves

Kasz216 on 28 January 2011
MARCUSDJACKSON said:
Rath said:
MARCUSDJACKSON said:
kitler53 said:
Kasz216 said:
...


You think they're the same people?    You do realize that hackers don't actual gain ANY benefits from the hacking they do right?  Outside being able to apply the same hacks to their products?

This hack by the way... doesn't even allow piracy. 

"breaking into anything is wrong".  I thought you were a democrat?   Your strange Neo-conservative view here is weird.

Should it be illegal to break into your own house?  Afterall that's what he was breaking into... his own PS3.

 

If someone gave everybody the keys to break into their own house... should it be illegal?

no see, this is where are wrong.  when you buy a ps3 you by the hardware NOT the software.  if geohotz wants to  bedazzled his ps3 -- go right ahead.  but you, i, or geohot do not own the software on the ps3, that's not part of the deal.

i own a copy of windows -- what i don't own is the right to modify and redistribute the code because i don't own it.  if i wanted to do that i'd have to pony up the 8 or whatever BILLION dollars it would cost to buy those rights.

it really begs the question does anybody know wht copyright infringement is or means?

and if they did we would still be having this conversation.

i know everybody here knows wht it means but when it comes to hacking some people throw laws out the window.

Did he break copyright though? I do know what copyright is and that code is protected by it, but he hasn't published any code as such has he?

clever! found a hole in my argument did we. thats reall good and it was an obvious hole, but the fact that others can find this code out is the problem which will create the situation for copyright violation, piracy and more.

and just because he didn't doesn't mean others can't use his technology to do so. as well all know and can tell nothing is  hack proof and neither is jail brake.

Which is completely irrelvent.  "someone else could do something bad with it!" is pointless.

Once again, that's the same reasoning that has people sue gun companies for shooting deaths.

Something you are against... how can you be so intellectually dishonest with yourself on this stance?



MARCUSDJACKSON on 28 January 2011
Kasz216 said:
MARCUSDJACKSON said:
Rath said:
MARCUSDJACKSON said:
kitler53 said:
Kasz216 said:
...


You think they're the same people?    You do realize that hackers don't actual gain ANY benefits from the hacking they do right?  Outside being able to apply the same hacks to their products?

This hack by the way... doesn't even allow piracy. 

"breaking into anything is wrong".  I thought you were a democrat?   Your strange Neo-conservative view here is weird.

Should it be illegal to break into your own house?  Afterall that's what he was breaking into... his own PS3.

 

If someone gave everybody the keys to break into their own house... should it be illegal?

no see, this is where are wrong.  when you buy a ps3 you by the hardware NOT the software.  if geohotz wants to  bedazzled his ps3 -- go right ahead.  but you, i, or geohot do not own the software on the ps3, that's not part of the deal.

i own a copy of windows -- what i don't own is the right to modify and redistribute the code because i don't own it.  if i wanted to do that i'd have to pony up the 8 or whatever BILLION dollars it would cost to buy those rights.

it really begs the question does anybody know wht copyright infringement is or means?

and if they did we would still be having this conversation.

i know everybody here knows wht it means but when it comes to hacking some people throw laws out the window.

Did he break copyright though? I do know what copyright is and that code is protected by it, but he hasn't published any code as such has he?

clever! found a hole in my argument did we. thats reall good and it was an obvious hole, but the fact that others can find this code out is the problem which will create the situation for copyright violation, piracy and more.

and just because he didn't doesn't mean others can't use his technology to do so. as well all know and can tell nothing is  hack proof and neither is jail brake.

Which is completely irrelvent.  "someone else could do something bad with it!" is pointless.

Once again, that's the same reasoning that has people sue gun companies for shooting deaths.


well thats stupid, but you have no rights to the sofeware nor the ability to brake into hardwar



 Zarx's unofficial The Witcher 3    

Official Playstation Vita Thread!

write reveiws, articles, share thoughts, and expand on discussion like never before on gamewise.co/brainwaves

Kasz216 on 28 January 2011
MARCUSDJACKSON said:
Kasz216 said:
MARCUSDJACKSON said:
Rath said:
MARCUSDJACKSON said:
kitler53 said:
Kasz216 said:
...


You think they're the same people?    You do realize that hackers don't actual gain ANY benefits from the hacking they do right?  Outside being able to apply the same hacks to their products?

This hack by the way... doesn't even allow piracy. 

"breaking into anything is wrong".  I thought you were a democrat?   Your strange Neo-conservative view here is weird.

Should it be illegal to break into your own house?  Afterall that's what he was breaking into... his own PS3.

 

If someone gave everybody the keys to break into their own house... should it be illegal?

no see, this is where are wrong.  when you buy a ps3 you by the hardware NOT the software.  if geohotz wants to  bedazzled his ps3 -- go right ahead.  but you, i, or geohot do not own the software on the ps3, that's not part of the deal.

i own a copy of windows -- what i don't own is the right to modify and redistribute the code because i don't own it.  if i wanted to do that i'd have to pony up the 8 or whatever BILLION dollars it would cost to buy those rights.

it really begs the question does anybody know wht copyright infringement is or means?

and if they did we would still be having this conversation.

i know everybody here knows wht it means but when it comes to hacking some people throw laws out the window.

Did he break copyright though? I do know what copyright is and that code is protected by it, but he hasn't published any code as such has he?

clever! found a hole in my argument did we. thats reall good and it was an obvious hole, but the fact that others can find this code out is the problem which will create the situation for copyright violation, piracy and more.

and just because he didn't doesn't mean others can't use his technology to do so. as well all know and can tell nothing is  hack proof and neither is jail brake.

Which is completely irrelvent.  "someone else could do something bad with it!" is pointless.

Once again, that's the same reasoning that has people sue gun companies for shooting deaths.


well thats stupid, but you have no rights to the sofeware nor the ability to brake into hardwar


 A court of law would and HAS disagreed with you.  You do have the right to hack the software under Fair Use to get the software out of the way of using the hardware how you want.

Again you are being COMPLETELY illogical and intellectually dishonest.



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Rath on 28 January 2011
MARCUSDJACKSON said:

clever! found a hole in my argument did we. thats reall good and it was an obvious hole, but the fact that others can find this code out is the problem which will create the situation for copyright violation, piracy and more.

and just because he didn't doesn't mean others can't use his technology to do so. as well all know and can tell nothing is  hack proof and neither is jail brake.

Well actually him enabling others to break the law doesn't mean he himself broke the law.



kitler53 on 28 January 2011
MARCUSDJACKSON said:
Rath said:
MARCUSDJACKSON said:
kitler53 said:
Kasz216 said:
...


You think they're the same people?    You do realize that hackers don't actual gain ANY benefits from the hacking they do right?  Outside being able to apply the same hacks to their products?

This hack by the way... doesn't even allow piracy. 

"breaking into anything is wrong".  I thought you were a democrat?   Your strange Neo-conservative view here is weird.

Should it be illegal to break into your own house?  Afterall that's what he was breaking into... his own PS3.

 

If someone gave everybody the keys to break into their own house... should it be illegal?

no see, this is where are wrong.  when you buy a ps3 you by the hardware NOT the software.  if geohotz wants to  bedazzled his ps3 -- go right ahead.  but you, i, or geohot do not own the software on the ps3, that's not part of the deal.

i own a copy of windows -- what i don't own is the right to modify and redistribute the code because i don't own it.  if i wanted to do that i'd have to pony up the 8 or whatever BILLION dollars it would cost to buy those rights.

it really begs the question does anybody know wht copyright infringement is or means?

and if they did we would still be having this conversation.

i know everybody here knows wht it means but when it comes to hacking some people throw laws out the window.

Did he break copyright though? I do know what copyright is and that code is protected by it, but he hasn't published any code as such has he?

clever! found a hole in my argument did we. thats reall good and it was an obvious hole, but the fact that others can find this code out is the problem which will create the situation for copyright violation, piracy and more.

and just because he didn't doesn't mean others can't use his technology to do so. as well all know and can tell nothing is  hack proof and neither is jail brake.

not really a hole actually.

first off: http://www.lib.byu.edu/departs/copyright/tutorial/module1/page5.htm

secondly: "...copyright is automatic and need not be obtained through official registration with any government office. Once an idea has been reduced to tangible form, for example by securing it in a fixed medium (such as a drawing, sheet music, photograph, a videotape, or a computer file), the copyright holder is entitled to enforce his or her exclusive rights."



Reasonable on 29 January 2011
Kasz216 said:
Reasonable said:

Do we have anyone with real US legal knowledge on the boards by any chance?  I'm no expert but sniffing around it does seem Sony does have more than a zero chance to prosecute here.

Unless I'm missreading stuff the impression I've gained is that their is a law in US preventing breaking included security countermeasures in electronic devices - with the exception of phones for some reason.  When you buy and use a PS3 you are agreeing to abide by that law in the US so far as I can see.

With the iPhone the exception for phones protected those hacking it I would presume.  Unless I'm reading it wrong the PS3 does have legal protection from hacking which allegendly has been broken - i.e. opening it up, modding it, etc. without breaking the security would be fine, but if you did break the security to do so... then you've commited a legally punishable offence.

Now, I have no idea whether that law is upholdable - or even if I've read it accurately - so I'd like opinions of anyone who is more familiar with US law.


There is nothing in the Iphone ruling that involved only phones.  In general, that law is actually... mostly not legal.  The US has a lot of laws that exist that aren't legal.  Court says something is unconstiutional, senate is lazy and doesn't want to repeal it.   It stays in place until the court ruling is reveresed again or we forget about it.

Sometimes people operate that way anyway.  For example the State of Ohio funds it's schools in a way that was deemed unconstiutional.... in 1978.

According to the Iphone ruling, it's only illegal to jailbreak your console if you download illegal softare like piracy..

Or if you physically jailbreak someone elses console.  (Jailbreaking must be done by the owner.)

Essentially it isn't illegal to block people from using unauthorized software on their products.

However it also isn't illegal to violate the software to use unauthorized programs so long as they are legal.

Okay.  That's clearer.  Going to be interesting to see how this goes.  The legal position seems to be a nightmare though: seems to me that globally the laws pertaining to digital media, online activities and the hardware they run on could do with a serious sorting out.



Try to be reasonable... its easier than you think...

oldschoolfool on 29 January 2011

He's just going to deleted everything,so what good does this due Sony. This is nothing but a bully tatic in my mind.



Smashed on 29 January 2011

Good for Sony.

Screw GeoHotz. He is a no-life nerd that tried to gain e-fame and got it.