You're overlooking the fact that each controller is profitable. I won't venture to guess how much per unit, but for a control option that can add 4 controllers to a current user like the Wii, the more they sell, the more they profit, even without selling a single software unit.

That's without even throwing in the cost of $30 nav cons because they are optional, even though the opposing argument regarding cost was typically "you have to buy two Move controllers and two Navigation controllers" which is not the reality.

I'd be surprised if any of the hardware pieces that make up Move cost a penny over $10 to manufacture.

Im not overlooking the fact that both Kinect and Move have high gross margins. However the development cost at the release of a new product make up a significant proportion of overall costs. You have to remember that it is possible to have reasonably good gross margins on a product but still come up short from an operational cost perspective. Move was in development since 2002, on Kinect Greenburg said he felt it cost almost a billion dollars to bring to market.

As an example, not 100% accurate of course:

• 10M Kinects sold
• $400M physical cost.
• $1000M operational costs.
• $1000M revenue.
• $600M gross margins.
• $400M operating loss.

• 20M Kinects sold.
• $800M physical cost.
• $1200M operational costs.
• $2000M revenue.
• $1200M gross margins
• Break even

• 40M Kinects sold.
• $1600M physical costs
• $1600M operational costs
• $4000M revenue.
• $2400M gross margins.
• $800M profit.

Thats ignoring the other sources of revenue as well. However those other direct sources of revenue help to lower the overall operational cost burden on each Kinect device sold. Thats why selling more Kinect related games is important from a business perspective. Though Kinect did cost much more to bring to market.

Anyway remember all those times various Sony execs would say that the PS3 cost to manufacture was close to break even or even slightly profitable but when the financial results came in and they were unprofitable? Well thats because they were talking about gross margins and not operational margins. It doesn't matter if Move costs $10 to make if it doesn't cover the operational costs based off the number of units sold.

Probably what I posted about.

Which had nothing to do with me.

Sure it did.  You were trying to explain Kowenicki's point.  His real point was he couldn't really justify calling Move a success because it seems that many developers may just start using it as an alternate control method.  Going so far to say that if developers started to do the same thing with Kinect, we could call that a failure, regardless of sales.  I was just illustrating how that point was invalid.

Why is this thread turning into Kinect? 

I am getting really sick these derailment people, yes, Kinect is successful, go post in the 6 million Kinect threads, this is about Move an how successful it is. 

Did you seriously expect certain members - you know who there are -  to ignore any chance to have a dig at anything PS3.

The same people attacking Move sales are mostly the same people who were were attacking the PS3 sales a couple years back laughing about it being doomed and Sony pulling the plug on it by the end of 2008.

Considering that PS3 outsold x360 in 2010 it shows these said people are not really as intelligent as they pretend to be.

Let's see what happens over the next two years.

When there's Move, There's Kinect, and maybe Wii.

Since when did Sony fans become the bullied minority on this site, some of you guys make me laugh.

You came to this thread jus to post this , my god, this is getting insane.

Anyways, I went to Target today and I realized why Move is not selling any games, there are none that really stands out, I have move since it started and I really can't see myself buying any of the gAmes sony has to offer for it.