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Forums - Gaming Discussion - What does PSP2 need to compete against 3DS?

Solid_Snake4RD on 05 November 2010
jarrod said:


Sales charts?  DS software has already bottomed out in Europe, there's articles everywhere in the press about flashcard (or Magicons in Japan)... I don't think you're really aware of how prevalent DS piracy really is.  It's everywhere, and reminds me a lot of the late term PS1 era (where *everyone* I knew had a modded PSX... me included. :x).  Actually, it's getting pretty bad for Wii too... the only easily pirated system that seems at all insulated is 360, probably thanks to fear of XBL banning.

And the point with emulation, it shows that DS piracy is even easier and less costly than PSP piracy.  You literally don't need any "external parts", not an R4, not a PSP, just your PC.

And when I was talking "teens" I was thinking mainly Japan, sorry I should've made that clear.  There it's (generally) teens have PSP, kids have DS.  In the west, it's more like kids have DS, no one has PSP (lol).

DS software has gone down but it is still great compared to PSP

again you don't understand what the other person is saying

piracy is over at the DS too,but on PSP is even more

 

and those news about R4 cards,yeah it is there but it is banned at other places too,what about PSP now you can't ban the internet can you to download games?

if you had a a modded PS1 and everyone around you had one then you are that kind of person and you will have that kind of friends

i don't have a single person who  has a modded console so just coming out and people around you modded doesn't mean everybody did

like if you go to an rural country,its normal for everybody to have modded consoles but that doesn't mean it happens everywhere in the world

 

the 360 can still be accessed online with a modded 360 so xbl banning is not the reason

the reason it still sells software is that alot of its userbase is in the NA and UK where they take action against it and people got money to buy games

 

again you are trying to prove your point by emulation and without external parts,you just can't debate the right way

emulation on another device is nowhere near the piracy on the device itself

i would play Starcraft on PC not Nintendodogs

i know you will go about it too but learn to leave a debate to rest.



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Solid_Snake4RD on 05 November 2010
jarrod said:
Solid_Snake4RD said:
jarrod said:

Solid_Snake4RD said:

 bullshit

 

don't just go and compare that PS2,PS1 games were pirated these many times

 

go and check the ratio between purchase and he piracted games then you will know how bad it is

Ratio arguments inherently favor smaller bases.  It's like arguing Saturn was more heavily pirated than PS1, since it didn't have as many legitimate game sales.  It's not exactly correct in the wider context, and really, we don't know exactly how many "copies" are pirated for a direct comparison.

In terms of ratio though, either PSP or Dreamcast are probably the worst off, yeah. But ratio means little, a higher ratio or piracy doesn't mean more piracy (just as a higher ratio of sales doesn't mean more sales).  Systems like PS1, PS2, DS and even Xbox or N64 generally had a decent mainstream audience who still legitimately bought games, even though piracy was common on ALL those systems during their lifecycles.  PSP has that to an extent too in Japan yet.


actually the some torrent websites put out lists every year and PSP games are there

 

and if not that ratio,you can just look at the HW and SW sales Shipped sales ratio from the last few years.its nowhere near what was on the PS1,PS2

just admit it.

 

nobody is saying PSP would have been number 1 without piracy but the point is that it would be nowhere near where it has gone down now wihtout it

Right and Comgnet put out sales and preorder figures all the time... how do those compare to the overall JP market again?  You can't take just one slice of data (ie: a couple torrent sites) and say that's what things are like everywhere...

Also, part of PSP's higher hardware likely has something to do with actually needing the hardware to pirate games.  I know you want to pretend emulation doesn't exist, but it does, and PS1, PS2 and DS were all easily emulated during their lifecycles... if you always needed those systems themselves to pirate games, then their hardware sales probably would've been higher too.  In fact, a strong case can be made that piracy helps PSP hardware sales...

actually not couple of torrent sites,many sites put out the pirated figures of all the biggest torrent sites

and stop being Japan market only,i am discusing on worldwide basis

 

PS1 is nowhere near emulated these days and i mean comparing to other emulated platforms

PS2 still has problems and is nowhere near the piracy itself

DS is high but again compared to the device,not close

 

PS2 was never emulated during its cycle it had so many problems and till today the full game compatibilty isnot there

 

as pircay we are discusing the number of hardware sold vs the the  number of SW sold on or pirated on it not some other device

 

yeah piracy helps all console and handheld sales.



Ali-Kharazi on 05 November 2010
  • Better Graphics
  • Competitive Price (no more than $50 higher then 3DS)
  • 32GB Flash Drive

    • Bonuses would be:

    • PS1/PS2 B/C
    • PSP B/C
    • digital download only from the beginning


    Mr.Metralha on 05 November 2010
    Ali-Kharazi said:
  • Better Graphics
  • Competitive Price (no more than $50 higher then 3DS)
  • 32GB Flash Drive

    • Bonuses would be:

    • PS1/PS2 B/C
    • PSP B/C
    • digital download only from the beginning

    How did better graphics, more storage space and PS1 compatibility helped PSP against the DS?

     

    Answer: It didn't.



    Solid_Snake4RD on 05 November 2010
    Mr.Metralha said:
    Ali-Kharazi said:
  • Better Graphics
  • Competitive Price (no more than $50 higher then 3DS)
  • 32GB Flash Drive

    • Bonuses would be:

    • PS1/PS2 B/C
    • PSP B/C
    • digital download only from the beginning

    How did better graphics, more storage space and PS1 compatibility helped PSP against the DS?

     

    Answer: It didn't.

    IT DIDN'T harm either

     

    and it helped in making PSP get a different crowd base

     

    now only if with the hardcore crowd they could have also sealed the DS like crowd then it would be better

     

    DS couldn't do PSP like good graphics but PSP could have done both but they didn't

     

    so if they correct that then they are good

    but what will make that thing happen is what my thread was all about



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    dahuman on 05 November 2010

    good games for a portable environment would help. they completed failed to deliver that with the PSP outside of the few games vs the DS' libary of "I lost count" numbers when it comes to good "portable" games. It's something they really need to address. I'd prolly never play GoW on PSP when I know that I got the full experience on PS3 as the finale. It's hard for me to finish MGS PW as well even though I know it's a good game, if there was a true console version of KH, then I might not have played BBS either. See where I'm going with this? Those are just not good "portable" games, Sony HAS TO address this issue with the PSP2.



    Darc Requiem on 05 November 2010
    Solid_Snake4RD said:
    Darc Requiem said:

    What the PSP2 needs is for Nintendo to make a huge blunder. Anything besides that won't have any effect.

    how does that make sense?

    PSP has a comfortable installbase even after piracy took the games away

    dtewi said:

    Nothing. The 3DS has already won.


    now if SONY make a CES announcement before 3DS february release,that would be amazing

    jarrod said:

    Competitive games and a competitive pricepoint.  That's going to be a tall order given what we know of 3DS and what we've heard of PSP2...


    how is it a tall order when we already know 3DS is going to be expensive and all the games on 3DS are the typical for a Playstation platform and would be easily ported and plus new games

    and we haven't heard anything about the price and game about the PSP2

    Simple. The PSP launched with the type of developer support that the 3DS has. The DS didn't have the huge third party backing initially. It was similar to the WIi, with the difference being that third parties started backing the DS after it sold better than their expectations. The PSP2 won't have that luxury. The hype is behind the 3DS as is the massive amounts of third party support. The 3DS's third party support is likely to cause a significant part of the PSP1 userbase to choose the 3DS. When you combine that with Nintendo's games it's an endgame proposition barring a Nintendo blunder.

    For a change in a market leader to occur in gaming it requires a few things to occur. Having a great piece of hardware is only part of the equation. Having the current market leader make a grave error is the most important. A blunder by the market leader gives competing platforms an opening to take over. Poor software quality and turning down Nintendo's request to handle the US operations of the NES were two mistakes by Atari that gave Nintendo their shot. Nintendo's "Dream Team" of developers and choosing of the cartridge format combined with Sega's blunders with the 32X, Sega CD, and Saturn gave Sony it's opening for the PS1. The PS3's exceedingly high price left the door open for this gen.



    Solid_Snake4RD on 05 November 2010
    Darc Requiem said:

    Simple. The PSP launched with the type of developer support that the 3DS has. The DS didn't have the huge third party backing initially. It was similar to the WIi, with the difference being that third parties started backing the DS after it sold better than their expectations. The PSP2 won't have that luxury. The hype is behind the 3DS as is the massive amounts of third party support.

    agree

    The 3DS's third party support is likely to cause a significant part of the PSP1 userbase to choose the 3DS.

    now this choosing part only comes in if the PSP2 doesn't have good games too

    psp gamers will consider it as 3DS has their type of game but if PSP2 gets good games too then they will decide

    When you combine that with Nintendo's games it's an endgame proposition barring a Nintendo blunder.

    sure

    but if again Ninty games go and sell high and 3DS goes the same fate and other games sell low then third parties will consider both for developemnt

    also it isn't that PSP sold less,it is a very viable platform,it just that that it didn't maintain the sales and momentum after first 2 years and piracy made devs leave

    now ninty is trying to solve the problem of third parties not developing for their platform,the same way sony will try to solve the piracy issue with their platform which made third party leave

    For a change in a market leader to occur in gaming it requires a few things to occur. Having a great piece of hardware is only part of the equation. Having the current market leader make a grave error is the most important.

    agree but that market leader is already falling a bit,if not to its direct competitor but Ipod

    A blunder by the market leader gives competing platforms an opening to take over. Poor software quality and turning down Nintendo's request to handle the US operations of the NES were two mistakes by Atari that gave Nintendo their shot.

    actually that wasn't an error or mistake,atari was already dead and ninty were trying to outsource to sell with atari's name

    Nintendo's "Dream Team" of developers and choosing of the cartridge format combined with Sega's blunders with the 32X, Sega CD, and Saturn gave Sony it's opening for the PS1.

    this was again caused by alot of problems not just market leader making the mistake

    snes was big but didn't have total dominance,sega had a name even though that was because of their blunders and ninty's choice of first party games and restrictions

    The PS3's exceedingly high price left the door open for this gen.

    this is exactly the example that is needed

    a total dominance power of PS2 taken down for the future of blu-ray royalties


    darkknightkryta on 05 November 2010
    Solid_Snake4RD said:
    Darc Requiem said:

    Simple. The PSP launched with the type of developer support that the 3DS has. The DS didn't have the huge third party backing initially. It was similar to the WIi, with the difference being that third parties started backing the DS after it sold better than their expectations. The PSP2 won't have that luxury. The hype is behind the 3DS as is the massive amounts of third party support.

    agree

    Disagree, besides Gran Theft Auto, there was no Metal Gear, Kingdom Hearts, FInal Fantasy, Resident Evil, or Devil May Cry (Rumours of a PSP Devil May Cry was circulating back then and it never happened.) at launch, people assumed they were coming and except for Metal Gear they all went to the DS.  There were good games on the PSP at launch, but none had the name that Gran Theft Auto had.

    The 3DS's third party support is likely to cause a significant part of the PSP1 userbase to choose the 3DS.

    now this choosing part only comes in if the PSP2 doesn't have good games too

    psp gamers will consider it as 3DS has their type of game but if PSP2 gets good games too then they will decide

    When you combine that with Nintendo's games it's an endgame proposition barring a Nintendo blunder.

    sure

    but if again Ninty games go and sell high and 3DS goes the same fate and other games sell low then third parties will consider both for developemnt

    also it isn't that PSP sold less,it is a very viable platform,it just that that it didn't maintain the sales and momentum after first 2 years and piracy made devs leave

    now ninty is trying to solve the problem of third parties not developing for their platform,the same way sony will try to solve the piracy issue with their platform which made third party leave

    For a change in a market leader to occur in gaming it requires a few things to occur. Having a great piece of hardware is only part of the equation. Having the current market leader make a grave error is the most important.

    agree but that market leader is already falling a bit,if not to its direct competitor but Ipod

    A blunder by the market leader gives competing platforms an opening to take over. Poor software quality and turning down Nintendo's request to handle the US operations of the NES were two mistakes by Atari that gave Nintendo their shot.

    actually that wasn't an error or mistake,atari was already dead and ninty were trying to outsource to sell with atari's name

    Nintendo's "Dream Team" of developers and choosing of the cartridge format combined with Sega's blunders with the 32X, Sega CD, and Saturn gave Sony it's opening for the PS1.

    this was again caused by alot of problems not just market leader making the mistake

    snes was big but didn't have total dominance,sega had a name even though that was because of their blunders and ninty's choice of first party games and restrictions

    The PS3's exceedingly high price left the door open for this gen.

    this is exactly the example that is needed

    a total dominance power of PS2 taken down for the future of blu-ray royalties





    Solid_Snake4RD on 05 November 2010
    darkknightkryta said:

    Disagree, besides Gran Theft Auto, there was no Metal Gear, Kingdom Hearts, FInal Fantasy, Resident Evil, or Devil May Cry (Rumours of a PSP Devil May Cry was circulating back then and it never happened.) at launch, people assumed they were coming and except for Metal Gear they all went to the DS.  There were good games on the PSP at launch, but none had the name that Gran Theft Auto had.


    yeah those big games were very missed at the start

     

    i was just agreeing with the type of games which PSP had

    it surely would have benefited if it had those at the start instead of now