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Forums - General Discussion - Church plans to burn the Quran on Sept. 11

Kantor on 09 September 2010
Kenology said:

The mosque in my opinion is absolutely fine.  There are plenty of other places of worship around the ground zero.  Also, the area around ground zero is home to several liqour stores and strip clubs - not exactly 'sacred ground' people try to make it out to be.

It's nothing wrong with a mosque being there.

Burning a koran though... let's just say if the muslims burned a bible people would be ready to get violent. 

Not really, no. There are no Christian suicide bombers in Islamic countries.

Which, of course, is not to say that all, or even a large minority of Muslims are suicide bombers.



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Kasz216 on 09 September 2010
Final-Fan said:

A few minutes on Google failed to turn up any specific locations the governor might have offered, except for this bit of speculation: 
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2010/08/22/2010-08-22_patersonplan_for_site_not_grounded_in_reality.html

Instead of two blocks away, it would be ... five blocks away.  Better?  And if we go much further than that, that would probably disrupt the purpose of building it in the first place, as it was planned for that community. 

Or was Kasz talking about a completely different offer? 

That's likely it.  I'd heard there were offers of land 5-6 blocks away from ground zero.

5 blocks away would much be better.  Mainly because it wouldn't be visible from ground zero then... it's a 13-15 story building.  The main problem is, it's a giant towering trigger to people with PTSD and it's within view to anyone paying their respects... and that's a lot of people.  The whole thing would within view of the subway exit people would use to get there as it is.


From that location neither problem would exist. 



Kantor on 09 September 2010

Obama says this is going to be an incentive for mass Al-Qaeda "recruitment bonanza"

Interestingly, he has the most mild opinion of anyone the article quotes:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-11243711

Interpol: "If the proposed Koran burning by a pastor in the US goes ahead as planned, there is a strong likelihood that violent attacks on innocent people would follow,"

President of Pakistan: "Anyone who even thought of such a despicable act must be suffering from a diseased mind and a sickly soul...It will inflame sentiments among Muslims throughout the world and cause irreparable damage to interfaith harmony and also to world peace,"

British Government: "We would strongly oppose any attempt to offend any member of any religious or ethnic group. We are committed to religious tolerance,"

Hillary Clinton: "disgraceful"

General Petraeus: Endangers the lives of soldiers.

Apparently, the Vatican and NATO also disapprove, but no quotations were given.



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Kasz216 on 09 September 2010
sapphi_snake said:
Kasz216 said:

14% of NY and 5% of the country doesn't count as  a "lot of people" to you?


Veterans don't HAVE to protest that kind of stuff because nobody is inconsiderate enough to put that kind of stuff next to VA hospitals and clubs.

Regardless, your arguements have been full of two much ignorance to further debate with you.   You mentioned homophobia... but in general your arguements about PTSD have had about the same intellectual knowledge as people who argue homosexuality is a choice.

 

Not enough to matter.

But whatever... I know very well what PTSD is, I just don't find it a relevant or compelling argument for your stance.


If you really do know what PTSD is (i'm guessing not) and really think moving a building 3 blocks is a big deal when it would save hundreds of thousands if not millions of people uneeded anguish.

I couldn't think any less of you without a dircet action that specifically harmed someone.



Kasz216 on 09 September 2010
Kantor said:

Obama says this is going to be an incentive for mass Al-Qaeda "recruitment bonanza"

Interestingly, he has the most mild opinion of anyone the article quotes:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-11243711

Interpol: "If the proposed Koran burning by a pastor in the US goes ahead as planned, there is a strong likelihood that violent attacks on innocent people would follow,"

President of Pakistan: "Anyone who even thought of such a despicable act must be suffering from a diseased mind and a sickly soul...It will inflame sentiments among Muslims throughout the world and cause irreparable damage to interfaith harmony and also to world peace,"

British Government: "We would strongly oppose any attempt to offend any member of any religious or ethnic group. We are committed to religious tolerance,"

Hillary Clinton: "disgraceful"

General Petraeus: Endangers the lives of soldiers.

Apparently, the Vatican and NATO also disapprove, but no quotations were given.

We're lucky Al Queda doesn't have Youtube then.  Because you can literally find that kind of thing in seconds.

Heck

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJx7y9iKsbU&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wz6nV9WULqA&feature=related

like seriously,

Bible too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CshCI90Nfqc

 

If all it takes is a church of 50 people burning a relgious book to create a giant upswell in terrorist recruitment and attacks...

we've got much bigger issues.



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DukeOfLuxembourg on 09 September 2010
Kenology said:

The mosque in my opinion is absolutely fine.  There are plenty of other places of worship around the ground zero.  Also, the area around ground zero is home to several liqour stores and strip clubs - not exactly 'sacred ground' people try to make it out to be.

It's nothing wrong with a mosque being there.

Burning a koran though... let's just say if the muslims burned a bible people would be ready to get violent. 

You must be kidding, lots of bibles have been burned the last couple of years from radical muslims but the christians are not as much offended as muslems are from only mentioning to burn some qu'rans.

Let us look how peaceful muslims are during the ramadan (28 days now):
terror attacks in the name of 'The Religion of Peace': 201 with 937 dead bodies
terror attacks in the name of all other religions together: 1 with 1 dead body

Islamic terrorists have carried out more then 16'018 deadly terror attacks since 9/11.



Slimebeast on 09 September 2010
Kantor said:

Obama says this is going to be an incentive for mass Al-Qaeda "recruitment bonanza"

Interestingly, he has the most mild opinion of anyone the article quotes:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-11243711

Interpol: "If the proposed Koran burning by a pastor in the US goes ahead as planned, there is a strong likelihood that violent attacks on innocent people would follow,"

President of Pakistan: "Anyone who even thought of such a despicable act must be suffering from a diseased mind and a sickly soul...It will inflame sentiments among Muslims throughout the world and cause irreparable damage to interfaith harmony and also to world peace,"

British Government: "We would strongly oppose any attempt to offend any member of any religious or ethnic group. We are committed to religious tolerance,"

Hillary Clinton: "disgraceful"

General Petraeus: Endangers the lives of soldiers.

Apparently, the Vatican and NATO also disapprove, but no quotations were given.

Obama did well as usual. I like his statements in that interview.



Smidlee on 09 September 2010
Kasz216 said:
Kantor said:

Obama says this is going to be an incentive for mass Al-Qaeda "recruitment bonanza"

Interestingly, he has the most mild opinion of anyone the article quotes:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-11243711

Interpol: "If the proposed Koran burning by a pastor in the US goes ahead as planned, there is a strong likelihood that violent attacks on innocent people would follow,"

President of Pakistan: "Anyone who even thought of such a despicable act must be suffering from a diseased mind and a sickly soul...It will inflame sentiments among Muslims throughout the world and cause irreparable damage to interfaith harmony and also to world peace,"

British Government: "We would strongly oppose any attempt to offend any member of any religious or ethnic group. We are committed to religious tolerance,"

Hillary Clinton: "disgraceful"

General Petraeus: Endangers the lives of soldiers.

Apparently, the Vatican and NATO also disapprove, but no quotations were given.

We're lucky Al Queda doesn't have Youtube then.  Because you can literally find that kind of thing in seconds.

Heck

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJx7y9iKsbU&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wz6nV9WULqA&feature=related

like seriously,

Bible too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CshCI90Nfqc

 

If all it takes is a church of 50 people burning a relgious book to create a giant upswell in terrorist recruitment and attacks...

we've got much bigger issues.

Bingo! you hit the nail on the head. This story is not much of a story after all, just something hyped up by 24-hours news media.



TruckOSaurus on 09 September 2010
Kasz216 said:
sapphi_snake said:
Kasz216 said:

14% of NY and 5% of the country doesn't count as  a "lot of people" to you?


Veterans don't HAVE to protest that kind of stuff because nobody is inconsiderate enough to put that kind of stuff next to VA hospitals and clubs.

Regardless, your arguements have been full of two much ignorance to further debate with you.   You mentioned homophobia... but in general your arguements about PTSD have had about the same intellectual knowledge as people who argue homosexuality is a choice.

 

Not enough to matter.

But whatever... I know very well what PTSD is, I just don't find it a relevant or compelling argument for your stance.


If you really do know what PTSD is (i'm guessing not) and really think moving a building 3 blocks is a big deal when it would save hundreds of thousands if not millions of people uneeded anguish.

I couldn't think any less of you without a dircet action that specifically harmed someone.

How do you figure that millions of people will suffer unneeded anguish from seeing a Mosque close to Ground Zero?



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Final-Fan on 09 September 2010
Kasz216 said:
Final-Fan said:

A few minutes on Google failed to turn up any specific locations the governor might have offered, except for this bit of speculation: 
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2010/08/22/2010-08-22_patersonplan_for_site_not_grounded_in_reality.html

Instead of two blocks away, it would be ... five blocks away.  Better?  And if we go much further than that, that would probably disrupt the purpose of building it in the first place, as it was planned for that community. 

Or was Kasz talking about a completely different offer? 

That's likely it.  I'd heard there were offers of land 5-6 blocks away from ground zero.

5 blocks away would much be better.  Mainly because it wouldn't be visible from ground zero then... it's a 13-15 story building.  The main problem is, it's a giant towering trigger to people with PTSD and it's within view to anyone paying their respects... and that's a lot of people.  The whole thing would within view of the subway exit people would use to get there as it is.

From that location neither problem would exist. 

I had heard that it (the 2-block-away site) would NOT be literally visible from "ground zero". 

As for the offer, you will note that the 5-block-away site was NOT a solid offer by the governor, rather speculation as to what he could possibly hope to offer given a nonspecific suggestion of using property available to the state.  The site in question is owned by the MTA which they could believably be persuaded to part with. 

But yeah, if the governor would actually walk up and say "I can absolutely make this happen, just move a few blocks" then they should take it.  But it sounded more like "Hey I have an idea, maybe I can move you, please wait while government takes god knows how long to put it into action, assuming we actually do".  I'm not surprised that the current plan is moving forward if the latter is closer to the truth. 



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