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Forums - General Discussion - Church plans to burn the Quran on Sept. 11

Final-Fan on 09 September 2010
Smidlee said:
Bingo! you hit the nail on the head. This story is not much of a story after all, just something hyped up by 24-hours news media.

Hopefully this is correct, and the gov'ts, law enforcement agencies, military etc. are overreacting to that media frenzy.  Because otherwise, if the terrorists are the ones who overreact to that frenzy, it could be bad. 



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Smidlee on 09 September 2010
Final-Fan said:
Smidlee said:
Bingo! you hit the nail on the head. This story is not much of a story after all, just something hyped up by 24-hours news media.

Hopefully this is correct, and the gov'ts, law enforcement agencies, military etc. are overreacting to that media frenzy.  Because otherwise, if the terrorists are the ones who overreact to that frenzy, it could be bad. 


If someone gets offended by you burning your own book rather it's a bible, koran or the yellow pages there's a 99.99% possibility they don't like you the start with.



Final-Fan on 09 September 2010
TruckOSaurus said:
Kasz216 said:If you really do know what PTSD is (i'm guessing not) and really think moving a building 3 blocks is a big deal when it would save hundreds of thousands if not millions of people uneeded anguish.

I couldn't think any less of you without a dircet action that specifically harmed someone.

How do you figure that millions of people will suffer unneeded anguish from seeing a Mosque close to Ground Zero?

I think he is imagining massive pilgrimage to the site by PTSD sufferers who have phobic reactions to symbols of Islam. 

He can't be talking about residents in the area, as they already must be suffering from the mosque already there!  So it's the same angush either way

On a related note, Kasz, I just thought of the fact that it's not like this building is probably going to have a giant red sign painted on it saying "OMG MUSLIM BUILDING".  What makes you so sure this will be instantly identifiable to them, thus triggering the anguish, once the dust settles and the media move on? 



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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

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I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

Final-Fan on 09 September 2010
Smidlee said:
Final-Fan said:
Smidlee said:
Bingo! you hit the nail on the head. This story is not much of a story after all, just something hyped up by 24-hours news media.

Hopefully this is correct, and the gov'ts, law enforcement agencies, military etc. are overreacting to that media frenzy.  Because otherwise, if the terrorists are the ones who overreact to that frenzy, it could be bad. 

If someone gets offended by you burning your own book rather it's a bible, koran or the yellow pages there a 99.99% possibility they don't like you the start with.




(better clip with no embedding allowed:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJkHykGRXrw )

Yes of course the terrorists already don't like us, but the fact remains that this could stir them up to do something about that hatred they otherwise wouldn't. 

And on a point that clip doesn't illustrate, this event, if it takes place, will make a wonderful propaganda point for them to use and create NEW hatred and NEW terrorists.  Not to say that the church doesn't have a right to do it, but that doesn't somehow negate the negative consequences. 



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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
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Smidlee on 09 September 2010

From what  I've seen so far, having American troops in the Middle East is good enough to recruit terrorists.  So far in America there has been no attacking aimed at a church. I personally think it makes no difference what the churches do in America , they aiming for our economy and government.



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zarx on 09 September 2010
TheRealMafoo said:
zarx said:
TheRealMafoo said:

Wow, this thread really blew up.

All I wanted to do with it, is show how one side is doing nothing more then hurting peoples feelings, and the other side wants to murder people.

Odd that the side being condemned, is the side that's doing nothing more then hurting peoples feelings.

There is no law against hurting your feelings, and there shouldn't be.


wait how is the mosque killing people? unless you mean the the book burning is killing people? But at the start of the thread you thought that it was cleaver so that doesn't make sense...

Unless you are retroactively changing the point of the thread to be about the reaction of Muslims  to the book burning but you can't do that.


Why I thought it was clever, is we have lost the reason this tension exists in the first place. Yes, there are some who are ignorant and think Muslim = Terrorist. But we have gone so far in this country in the media and government to try and correct that perception, that we are starting to lose the fact that a percentage of Muslims are not peaceful people.

What's clever, is that this Church, though the simple act of offending people, has brought this fact back to the forefront.

There are millions of Muslims that in there perfect world, would see the US and it's 300,000,000 people removed from the face of the earth, and we are talking about them again.

That's what's clever.

PS. Unlike our government, I think it's dangerous for the American people to forget they exist.

Do you really think people forget that Muslim extremists committed acts of terrorism? I mean the reaction to the mosque would suggest that a lot of people remember, and a lot of them let them let that colour their view of the entire faith. 

If reminding people that Muslim extremists committed acts of terrorism was what you found cleaver, wouldn't the mosque be a far better example? Rather than a book burning that only really reminds us that there is a large amount of borderline irrational hate in the USA against Muslims. 

And if reminding people of extreme acts is cleaver, surely that means you think that all acts of terrorism by Muslims are cleaver because they do a much better job of reminding people. Do you see why that is a stupid argument? The book burning is an insensitive act born out of hatred and is in no way cleaver. 



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kutasek on 09 September 2010


Kasz216 on 09 September 2010
Final-Fan said:
Kasz216 said:
Final-Fan said:

A few minutes on Google failed to turn up any specific locations the governor might have offered, except for this bit of speculation: 
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2010/08/22/2010-08-22_patersonplan_for_site_not_grounded_in_reality.html

Instead of two blocks away, it would be ... five blocks away.  Better?  And if we go much further than that, that would probably disrupt the purpose of building it in the first place, as it was planned for that community. 

Or was Kasz talking about a completely different offer? 

That's likely it.  I'd heard there were offers of land 5-6 blocks away from ground zero.

5 blocks away would much be better.  Mainly because it wouldn't be visible from ground zero then... it's a 13-15 story building.  The main problem is, it's a giant towering trigger to people with PTSD and it's within view to anyone paying their respects... and that's a lot of people.  The whole thing would within view of the subway exit people would use to get there as it is.

From that location neither problem would exist. 

I had heard that it (the 2-block-away site) would NOT be literally visible from "ground zero". 

As for the offer, you will note that the 5-block-away site was NOT a solid offer by the governor, rather speculation as to what he could possibly hope to offer given a nonspecific suggestion of using property available to the state.  The site in question is owned by the MTA which they could believably be persuaded to part with. 

But yeah, if the governor would actually walk up and say "I can absolutely make this happen, just move a few blocks" then they should take it.  But it sounded more like "Hey I have an idea, maybe I can move you, please wait while government takes god knows how long to put it into action, assuming we actually do".  I'm not surprised that the current plan is moving forward if the latter is closer to the truth. 

People have said that... but they're wrong.  You can google map it.

It's a 13 story building with nothing in the way more or less.



Final-Fan on 09 September 2010
Smidlee said:
From what  I've seen so far, having American troops in the Middle East is good enough to recruit terrorists.  So far in America there has been no attacking aimed at a church. I personally think it makes no difference what the churches do in America , they aiming for our economy and government.

It's not a binary ability "Can recruit/can't recruit".  This will probably let them recruit MORE and more effectively.  Are you seriously going to deny it?  Come on, tell me to my face that being able to point to Koran-burning parties in the USA won't let them inflame the populace beyond what they are currently able to do. 



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
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The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
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I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

Kasz216 on 09 September 2010
Final-Fan said:
TruckOSaurus said:
Kasz216 said:If you really do know what PTSD is (i'm guessing not) and really think moving a building 3 blocks is a big deal when it would save hundreds of thousands if not millions of people uneeded anguish.

I couldn't think any less of you without a dircet action that specifically harmed someone.

How do you figure that millions of people will suffer unneeded anguish from seeing a Mosque close to Ground Zero?

I think he is imagining massive pilgrimage to the site by PTSD sufferers who have phobic reactions to symbols of Islam. 

He can't be talking about residents in the area, as they already must be suffering from the mosque already there!  So it's the same angush either way

On a related note, Kasz, I just thought of the fact that it's not like this building is probably going to have a giant red sign painted on it saying "OMG MUSLIM BUILDING".  What makes you so sure this will be instantly identifiable to them, thus triggering the anguish, once the dust settles and the media move on? 

Well, yes.  That's actually one coping mechanism.  Besides the fact that 14% of 8 million people is already over a million.

As for knowing what it is, well that's easy, Islamic architecture is a lot different from US arhitecture. 

It looks like it might get settled anyway though, the whole thing is looking to be a huge cash making scheme.  The guy who bought the land for 5 million is now offering to sell it and not build the community center, for the low low price of 20 million.

If that was his original intention, man is a genious.