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Forums - Sales Discussion - I just realized that Nintendo will stay in first place for a long time

Metallicube on 17 July 2010
Haywired said:
RolStoppable said:
Haywired said:

I'm not sure about the theory that during the N64 and GC eras Nintendo was less Nintendo-like or that they were desperately trying to go after the "hardcore", "mature" demographic with those consoles. I don't think Zelda: Wind Waker would have looked like it did if that were the case. Or that a game called Super Mario Sunshine would have been released. Or that the GameCube would've been purple. I think those consoles were just as Nintendo-like as any.

If such a thing exists, surely the Wii is less Nintendo-like as its success is built on Wii Sports and Wii Fit, ie. realistic, simulator, "lifestyle" type games, instead of Nintendo's traditional character based, fantasy based, story based, action/adventure based games.

If a company abandones its flagship game, than that surely counts. Would Sony or Microsoft still be the same without Gran Turismo or Halo? Of course not, something would be missing. Just like 2D Mario. Then there were things like the Resident Evil series going Gamecube exclusive. It's not like Nintendo stopped being who they are completely, but they definitely weren't the same as they were back in the NES days or nowadays with the Wii. Another example would be Nintendo trying to inject more story in their games, following the industry instead of going their own way.

The Wii's success is built on Wii Sports, Wii Fit, 2D Mario and Mario Kart. There seems to be a balance between new and old when it comes to the biggest games on the system which would explain why the Wii broke sales record after sales record. But actually, only Wii Fit is really new. The NES also had plenty of Nintendo sports games like Tennis, Golf and Baseball.

But I don't think they abandoned 2D Mario. They just started making 3D Mario games because that was the big new thing at the time (that they were a huge part of). I don't think they see 2D and 3D Mario platformers as two separate franchises. They're all Mario platformers. Plus there were still 2D Mario games being released at the time on the handhelds (albeit remakes).

Which is part of the reason Nintendo handhelds remained poular while their consoles did not.

3D Mario games are fun, but they are just not the same gameplay wise. It is like saying Castlevania 64 is similar to the 2D Castlevanias.

The 3D Mario games are not quite as fast paced and rely on different strategies. The 2D games have a more simplistic arcade style that relies more on reflex and your strategies in powerups, while the 3D games are more about exploration, puzzle solving, and going through an oppstacle course so to speak to reach the star. 3D Mario is more fetch quest, while 2D Mario is basically get to the end alive.



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HappySqurriel on 17 July 2010

In the modern (post market collapse) videogame market there have been 8 distinct market leaders; the NES, SNES, Playstation, PS2, Wii, Gameboy, Gameboy Advance and Nintendo DS. Being that 2 of these market leaders can be considered market creators (NES and Gameboy) 6 of these market leaders had previous generation market leaders that they replaced and 4 of these systems were the follow up console of the previous generation market leader. When you consider that the two times the market leader switched place 1 console was released 18 months after that generation’s market leading console, and the second time the console released at $250 to $350 more than the market leading console did.

Why I bring this up is that if Nintendo releases a home console at the same time or a year before their competition releases a system, selling between $200 and $300, the momentum provided by being the market leading console in this generation gives them a massive advantage in the follow up generation. Unless Sony and Microsoft release a more compelling system at a very reasonable price and launching at the same time or earlier than Nintendo’s next system, Nintendo will probably be the next generations market leading console.

I acknowledge that there are a lot of "If, ands or buts" in my analysis; but I think the next generation will play out in a way that works to Nintendo’s advantage.



Games4Fun on 17 July 2010
RolStoppable said:
Haywired said:

But I don't think they abandoned 2D Mario. They just started making 3D Mario games because that was the big new thing at the time (that they were a huge part of). I don't think they see 2D and 3D Mario platformers as two separate franchises. They're all Mario platformers. Plus there were still 2D Mario games being released at the time on the handhelds (albeit remakes).

They abandoned 2D Mario. No new game for more than 15 years.

Nintendo indeed thought that 2D and 3D Mario are the same series. Now they don't anymore because they've seen the sales.

Best move they made this Gen IMO What just adds icing on the cake is 2D Donkey Kong Country and Kirby this year. It is a good time to be a fan of 2Dplatformers



A_C_E on 17 July 2010

The counter-cultured system won by leaps and bounds last gen so...



Zedex on 17 July 2010

I think sony and microsoft will counter back next gen

 



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Rainbird on 17 July 2010
RolStoppable said:
Rainbird said:

I think the reason so much of their core audiences are hostile towards motion gaming is because they percieve it to be about mini games and waggle. Sony are actually doing something about this, with games like Heavy Rain, SOCOM 4, Killzone 3, RE5:Gold and others; games for their core audience, enhanced with motion controls (though I suppose time will tell if it's really an enhancement). Sony's hardware might seem close to that of the Wii, but they're trying to distance themselves from the Wii through the software, unlike Microsoft, who have very different hardware but the software seems more like your stereotypical Wii game.

I don't think the hostility comes from the wrong perception that motion controls are just for minigames and waggle, it always had more to do with motion controls being associated with Nintendo. The Wii has FPS games as well as Resident Evil 4 which is very similar to RE5, so I don't think this part of your argument holds water. Also, some of Sony's core audience are willing to embrace/try out motion controls now that they aren't "Nintendo" anymore. We've seen minds changing as soon as Sony showed off their prototype at E3 2009.

I think the association of motion controls with mini games and waggle and the association of motion controls with Nintendo might be interchangeable to a degree this generation. Wii Sports and other Nintendo games in that category as well as various carnival games that have become associated with the Wii (and through it, Nintendo to a degree) have seen to that.

And the Wii certainly has core games, but much of the image of the Wii has to do with family and party games, so I think gamers who fear the so called "casual" games, dominating the market chooses to focus upon the "negative" news out of ignorance. Whether this starts as an association with Nintendo or whether Nintendo is associated with these games later on is beyond me.

But I agree that fanboy allegiances certainly play a part as well, though it can be hard to measure just how much once we leave the internet behind and go out into the real life gaming community.



atma998 on 17 July 2010
BBH said:
SmokedHostage said:
BBH said:

As long as Nintendo controls the family and child game market, of course they will be ahead.

Call that trolling, or whatever, that's the bare truth.

Nintendo are currently an astounding success because they appeal to those two big markets, and the others, although trying, don't.

I don't think it's bad that Nintendo has control of those markets and I don't see how what you're saying is trolling.  I just hate the mentality that this market is everything that ails gaming and will change it to something the 13-25 year old demographic don't want it to be.  There will be the titles you want to see, just speak with your money.  The day the 13-25 year old demographic stop buying games will the day MS, Sony, and their third party partners shift accordingly.

It's not, but every time I even mention children and Nintendo in the same sentence on this site I usually get called out for it.

You're right - it's no bad thing at all, Nintendo provide something different to different people and at the minute they are business gold dust.

Yeah and that's because you usually make it sound like if there is ONLY children and grandparents buying the Wii which of course is pure BS if you ask me...



SleepWaking on 17 July 2010
atma998 said:
BBH said:
SmokedHostage said:
BBH said:

As long as Nintendo controls the family and child game market, of course they will be ahead.

Call that trolling, or whatever, that's the bare truth.

Nintendo are currently an astounding success because they appeal to those two big markets, and the others, although trying, don't.

I don't think it's bad that Nintendo has control of those markets and I don't see how what you're saying is trolling.  I just hate the mentality that this market is everything that ails gaming and will change it to something the 13-25 year old demographic don't want it to be.  There will be the titles you want to see, just speak with your money.  The day the 13-25 year old demographic stop buying games will the day MS, Sony, and their third party partners shift accordingly.

It's not, but every time I even mention children and Nintendo in the same sentence on this site I usually get called out for it.

You're right - it's no bad thing at all, Nintendo provide something different to different people and at the minute they are business gold dust.

Yeah and that's because you usually make it sound like if there is ONLY children and grandparents buying the Wii which of course is pure BS if you ask me...

exactly nobody will argue with you that Nintendo isn't aiming for the children demographic, but some people act like that is all they are doing. Nintendo aims for everybody.



Qays on 17 July 2010

Nintendo has dominated this generation, but I'm not sure it will dominate the next.

The Wii has sold phenomenally well, but the same cannot be said for Wii software: the only Wii games that have sold a truly spectacular amount of copies are Wii Sports (bundled), Wii Play (bundled), Wii Fit, Mario Kart Wii, Wii Sports Resort (bundled), New Super Mario Bros Wii, and Wii Fit Plus. Of these, the only two games that make use of Nintendo-specific characters and intellectual property are Mario Kart and New Super Mario Bros: in the next generation, Sony and/or Microsoft will be able to easily come out with clones of the various sports minigames to be available at console launch.

If they do this the only way Nintendo comes out on top is if they 1) come up with a new game-changing innovation or 2) continue to be viewed as the "definitive name in gaming" by low-information consumers. The first seems unlikely, and I'm not sure that low-information consumers are the ones who drive most console purchases - if Husband X can make a convincing case to Wife Y that the PlayStation 4 is just as good for sports-related minigames as the Super Wii will she really insist on the latter console?



Qays on 17 July 2010

As well I should.

I think where we disagree is this: I don't think that Nintendo has won this generation by "being Nintendo". I think it's won this generation by being innovative and being ahead of the game when it comes to the sports-related minigames that have enjoyed such spectacular success in recent years. They pioneered this genre and came to dominate it long before Sony and Microsoft were even conscious of the fact that it was a potential source of sales and profits.

But there's nothing Nintendo about a game like Wii Sports or Wii Fit. Sony could come out with PlayStation Fit next generation and no one would have any reason whatsoever to prefer the Nintendo version over it, or vice versa. And if they have no reason to prefer the Nintendo flavor of casual shovelware over the Sony/Microsoft version, it will all come down to the hardcore exclusives that each consolemaker brings to bear.