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Forums - Sales Discussion - I just realized that Nintendo will stay in first place for a long time

Rainbird said:

I don't know about Microsoft's policies, but I know that Sony don't force their teams to do anything they don't want to do, and that shouldn't change for a peripheral. Sony provides the money and the developers get to knock themselves out with whatever they want to do. So Sony 1st party developers adopting the Move and 3D is purely of their own choice.

And how are Microsoft not putting their top developers on Kinect? Microsoft only owns Lionhead and Rare, and they are pretty busy with Kinect games (with only Fable 3 being the big game from them that doesn't require Kinect).

And anyway, at this point in the generation, Move and Kinect could never be anything but peripherals. If anything, Sony and Microsoft might be softening the blow so to speak, if they're planning to release their next generation of consoles with control schemes derived from Move and Kinect.

I think the reason so much of their core audiences are hostile towards motion gaming is because they percieve it to be about mini games and waggle. Sony are actually doing something about this, with games like Heavy Rain, SOCOM 4, Killzone 3, RE5:Gold and others; games for their core audience, enhanced with motion controls (though I suppose time will tell if it's really an enhancement). Sony's hardware might seem close to that of the Wii, but they're trying to distance themselves from the Wii through the software, unlike Microsoft, who have very different hardware but the software seems more like your stereotypical Wii game.

Regardless of the outcome this generation, I expect motion controls are here to stay, for all three companies, and I expect the next generation of consoles to launch with some sort of motion control schemes. Sony and Microsoft will certainly be mindful of their core audience and their "needs" though, so I wouldn't be surprised to see something like the fabled break-apart controller from Sony and Microsoft launching with both Kinect and a traditional control pad out of the box.

Okay, if Microsoft only owns Rare and Lionhead, then those are by default their top development teams. This means I have to correct my point: Microsoft doesn't have top developers by industry standards working on Kinect games. Rare is long past its prime and the more talented people of Lionhead are working on Fable 3.

I don't think the hostility comes from the wrong perception that motion controls are just for minigames and waggle, it always had more to do with motion controls being associated with Nintendo. The Wii has FPS games as well as Resident Evil 4 which is very similar to RE5, so I don't think this part of your argument holds water. Also, some of Sony's core audience are willing to embrace/try out motion controls now that they aren't "Nintendo" anymore. We've seen minds changing as soon as Sony showed off their prototype at E3 2009.

Other than that, I mostly agree with what you said.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV (360+PS3) would outsell SSBB. I was wrong.

A Biased Review Reloaded / Open Your Eyes / Switch Shipments

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RolStoppable said:
Rainbird said:

I think the reason so much of their core audiences are hostile towards motion gaming is because they percieve it to be about mini games and waggle. Sony are actually doing something about this, with games like Heavy Rain, SOCOM 4, Killzone 3, RE5:Gold and others; games for their core audience, enhanced with motion controls (though I suppose time will tell if it's really an enhancement). Sony's hardware might seem close to that of the Wii, but they're trying to distance themselves from the Wii through the software, unlike Microsoft, who have very different hardware but the software seems more like your stereotypical Wii game.

I don't think the hostility comes from the wrong perception that motion controls are just for minigames and waggle, it always had more to do with motion controls being associated with Nintendo. The Wii has FPS games as well as Resident Evil 4 which is very similar to RE5, so I don't think this part of your argument holds water. Also, some of Sony's core audience are willing to embrace/try out motion controls now that they aren't "Nintendo" anymore. We've seen minds changing as soon as Sony showed off their prototype at E3 2009.

I think the association of motion controls with mini games and waggle and the association of motion controls with Nintendo might be interchangeable to a degree this generation. Wii Sports and other Nintendo games in that category as well as various carnival games that have become associated with the Wii (and through it, Nintendo to a degree) have seen to that.

And the Wii certainly has core games, but much of the image of the Wii has to do with family and party games, so I think gamers who fear the so called "casual" games, dominating the market chooses to focus upon the "negative" news out of ignorance. Whether this starts as an association with Nintendo or whether Nintendo is associated with these games later on is beyond me.

But I agree that fanboy allegiances certainly play a part as well, though it can be hard to measure just how much once we leave the internet behind and go out into the real life gaming community.



BBH said:
SmokedHostage said:
BBH said:

As long as Nintendo controls the family and child game market, of course they will be ahead.

Call that trolling, or whatever, that's the bare truth.

Nintendo are currently an astounding success because they appeal to those two big markets, and the others, although trying, don't.

I don't think it's bad that Nintendo has control of those markets and I don't see how what you're saying is trolling.  I just hate the mentality that this market is everything that ails gaming and will change it to something the 13-25 year old demographic don't want it to be.  There will be the titles you want to see, just speak with your money.  The day the 13-25 year old demographic stop buying games will the day MS, Sony, and their third party partners shift accordingly.

It's not, but every time I even mention children and Nintendo in the same sentence on this site I usually get called out for it.

You're right - it's no bad thing at all, Nintendo provide something different to different people and at the minute they are business gold dust.

Yeah and that's because you usually make it sound like if there is ONLY children and grandparents buying the Wii which of course is pure BS if you ask me...



atma998 said:
BBH said:
SmokedHostage said:
BBH said:

As long as Nintendo controls the family and child game market, of course they will be ahead.

Call that trolling, or whatever, that's the bare truth.

Nintendo are currently an astounding success because they appeal to those two big markets, and the others, although trying, don't.

I don't think it's bad that Nintendo has control of those markets and I don't see how what you're saying is trolling.  I just hate the mentality that this market is everything that ails gaming and will change it to something the 13-25 year old demographic don't want it to be.  There will be the titles you want to see, just speak with your money.  The day the 13-25 year old demographic stop buying games will the day MS, Sony, and their third party partners shift accordingly.

It's not, but every time I even mention children and Nintendo in the same sentence on this site I usually get called out for it.

You're right - it's no bad thing at all, Nintendo provide something different to different people and at the minute they are business gold dust.

Yeah and that's because you usually make it sound like if there is ONLY children and grandparents buying the Wii which of course is pure BS if you ask me...

exactly nobody will argue with you that Nintendo isn't aiming for the children demographic, but some people act like that is all they are doing. Nintendo aims for everybody.



Nintendo has dominated this generation, but I'm not sure it will dominate the next.

The Wii has sold phenomenally well, but the same cannot be said for Wii software: the only Wii games that have sold a truly spectacular amount of copies are Wii Sports (bundled), Wii Play (bundled), Wii Fit, Mario Kart Wii, Wii Sports Resort (bundled), New Super Mario Bros Wii, and Wii Fit Plus. Of these, the only two games that make use of Nintendo-specific characters and intellectual property are Mario Kart and New Super Mario Bros: in the next generation, Sony and/or Microsoft will be able to easily come out with clones of the various sports minigames to be available at console launch.

If they do this the only way Nintendo comes out on top is if they 1) come up with a new game-changing innovation or 2) continue to be viewed as the "definitive name in gaming" by low-information consumers. The first seems unlikely, and I'm not sure that low-information consumers are the ones who drive most console purchases - if Husband X can make a convincing case to Wife Y that the PlayStation 4 is just as good for sports-related minigames as the Super Wii will she really insist on the latter console?



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Qays said:

Nintendo has dominated this generation, but I'm not sure it will dominate the next.

The Wii has sold phenomenally well, but the same cannot be said for Wii software: the only Wii games that have sold a truly spectacular amount of copies are Wii Sports (bundled), Wii Play (bundled), Wii Fit, Mario Kart Wii, Wii Sports Resort (bundled), New Super Mario Bros Wii, and Wii Fit Plus. Of these, the only two games that make use of Nintendo-specific characters and intellectual property are Mario Kart and New Super Mario Bros: in the next generation, Sony and/or Microsoft will be able to easily come out with clones of the various sports minigames to be available at console launch.

If they do this the only way Nintendo comes out on top is if they 1) come up with a new game-changing innovation or 2) continue to be viewed as the "definitive name in gaming" by low-information consumers. The first seems unlikely, and I'm not sure that low-information consumers are the ones who drive most console purchases - if Husband X can make a convincing case to Wife Y that the PlayStation 4 is just as good for sports-related minigames as the Super Wii will she really insist on the latter console?

You make me proud.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV (360+PS3) would outsell SSBB. I was wrong.

A Biased Review Reloaded / Open Your Eyes / Switch Shipments

As well I should.

I think where we disagree is this: I don't think that Nintendo has won this generation by "being Nintendo". I think it's won this generation by being innovative and being ahead of the game when it comes to the sports-related minigames that have enjoyed such spectacular success in recent years. They pioneered this genre and came to dominate it long before Sony and Microsoft were even conscious of the fact that it was a potential source of sales and profits.

But there's nothing Nintendo about a game like Wii Sports or Wii Fit. Sony could come out with PlayStation Fit next generation and no one would have any reason whatsoever to prefer the Nintendo version over it, or vice versa. And if they have no reason to prefer the Nintendo flavor of casual shovelware over the Sony/Microsoft version, it will all come down to the hardcore exclusives that each consolemaker brings to bear.



Qays said:

As well I should.

I think where we disagree is this: I don't think that Nintendo has won this generation by "being Nintendo". I think it's won this generation by being innovative and being ahead of the game when it comes to the sports-related minigames that have enjoyed such spectacular success in recent years. They pioneered this genre and came to dominate it long before Sony and Microsoft were even conscious of the fact that it was a potential source of sales and profits.

But there's nothing Nintendo about a game like Wii Sports or Wii Fit. Sony could come out with PlayStation Fit next generation and no one would have any reason whatsoever to prefer the Nintendo version over it, or vice versa. And if they have no reason to prefer the Nintendo flavor of casual shovelware over the Sony/Microsoft version, it will all come down to the hardcore exclusives that each consolemaker brings to bear.

We aren't in disagreement. For that to happen, it would require me to take your posts seriously.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV (360+PS3) would outsell SSBB. I was wrong.

A Biased Review Reloaded / Open Your Eyes / Switch Shipments

I'm not sure if it's humanly possible to beat Nintendo when they are being 'Nintendo'. I've never seen it happen.

I watched as the NES destroyed every gaming system of the day. Not just the Master System but the ZX Spectrum and the Commodore 64 (with it's online gaming). The Gameboy gave the game-gear and atari lynx (with it's 16bit colour graphics) a thorough thrashing such that nobody dare enter the handheld arena for 15 years.

I think Nintendo are more dangerous now than ever. 'Yamauchi Luck' has been replaced by 'Iwata Science' and that man knows gaming better than everyone at MS and Sony combined.



Nov 2016 - NES outsells PS1 (JP)

Don't Play Stationary 4 ever. Switch!

"We aren't in disagreement. For that to happen, it would require me to take your posts seriously."

The best-selling non-bundled game on the Wii is Wii Fit.

What is it about Wii Fit that evinces that ephemeral Nintendo Magic? What is it about Wii Fit that couldn't be shamelessly stolen by Sony or Microsoft next generation?

The answer is nothing. Move and Kinect will fail because they are too late to the game, but next generation this will not be the case. Nintendo will innovate, it will come up with something new and potent - or it will have its lunch stolen once more by the big soulless multimedia corporations.