By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Gaming Discussion - Wii vs 360 3rd party sales!

naznatips on 03 December 2007
Biggerboat said:
Legend11 said:
 

The 360's userbase on Nov 19th, 2006 might have been balanced out by the fact that all the games still selling on the system but released prior to Nov 19th weren't being counted. Actually it doesn't matter anyways and all a person has to do is look at EA's, Ubisoft's, and Activision's financial statements to get a true picture of how much money they've made off each system for the year. For example the lists makes EA games sold look far closer than they actually were based on EA's breakdown of the percentage of income from each console.


Well considering the gulf in resources invested in each console I'd say that's to be expected. As I've said in my OP though I think the most significant number dev's will be looking at is the dollar for dollar return on investments, a stat that financial statements fail to convey and one that I'm confident Wii would win hands down.


His premise is wrong in the first place.  That fiscal report covered a time frame in which PS3 and 360 games were released from all 3 of those companies but not Wii games.  The only Wii games released during that time from any of those companies were Madden and Boogie.  Madden sales sucked, Boogie is a bad game, and other than that you might as well ask why 1+1=2.  There is no valid market analysis from that financial report.  Now the financial reports of companies like Ubisoft during the holidays (when they released stuff on all platforms) and Capcom's recent boasts of increased stock, revenue, and market value thanks solely to the Wii are major market indicators.



Around the Network
Biggerboat on 03 December 2007
naznatips said:
Biggerboat said:
Legend11 said:
 

The 360's userbase on Nov 19th, 2006 might have been balanced out by the fact that all the games still selling on the system but released prior to Nov 19th weren't being counted. Actually it doesn't matter anyways and all a person has to do is look at EA's, Ubisoft's, and Activision's financial statements to get a true picture of how much money they've made off each system for the year. For example the lists makes EA games sold look far closer than they actually were based on EA's breakdown of the percentage of income from each console.


Well considering the gulf in resources invested in each console I'd say that's to be expected. As I've said in my OP though I think the most significant number dev's will be looking at is the dollar for dollar return on investments, a stat that financial statements fail to convey and one that I'm confident Wii would win hands down.


His premise is wrong in the first place. That fiscal report covered a time frame in which PS3 and 360 games were released from all 3 of those companies but not Wii games. The only Wii games released during that time from any of those companies were Madden and Boogie. Madden sales sucked, Boogie is a bad game, and other than that you might as well ask why 1+1=2. There is no valid market analysis from that financial report. Now the financial reports of companies like Ubisoft during the holidays (when they released stuff on all platforms) and Capcom's recent boasts of increased stock, revenue, and market value thanks solely to the Wii are major market indicators.


Yeah I only noticed your previous post after I posted my response. I made the mistake of believing Legend was making a legitamite point and not just trying to blow smoke up our asses so didn't check up on his numbers.

Once bitten, twice shy!

Kudos for catching him in the act Naz. 



Hus said:

Grow up and stop trolling.

Legend11 on 03 December 2007
naznatips said:
Legend11 said:
Words Of Wisdom said:
Biggerboat said:
superchunk said:
Well. you are comparing 1st console to a 2nd year console. It would be better to compare 360's 1st year.

I don't think 3rd parties care about aligning launches and years of consoles, they're only interested in what's selling now! Any dev out there that is about to start a new project and wants to know which system to invest in will look at 07 data for both Wii and 360 as it's the most indicative of the current market.


The other point is that the Wii started off with a userbase of 0.

What was the 360's userbase at Nov 19th, 2006 again?


Now that the Wii's userbase has exceeded the 360's, expect better results next year.


The 360's userbase on Nov 19th, 2006 might have been balanced out by the fact that all the games still selling on the system but released prior to Nov 19th weren't being counted.  Actually it doesn't matter anyways and all a person has to do is look at EA's, Ubisoft's, and Activision's financial statements to get a true picture of how much money they've made off each system for the year.  For example the lists makes EA games sold look far closer than they actually were based on EA's breakdown of the percentage of income from each console.


Uh, Legend, other than EA none of those companies had even released a Wii game during their last fiscal report.  Those profit charts are an indicator of absolutely nothing if you don't pay attention to release lists.


I'm talking about any quarterly reports during the year not just the last one.  Activision for example did release games for the Wii during those reporting periods.

http://investor.activision.com/reports.cfm <-check out 2008 Q1 and 2008 Q2

http://www.ubisoftgroup.com/index.php?p=194&art_id= <-has reports that cover the period in question



Legend11 on 03 December 2007
naznatips said:
Biggerboat said:
Legend11 said:
 

The 360's userbase on Nov 19th, 2006 might have been balanced out by the fact that all the games still selling on the system but released prior to Nov 19th weren't being counted. Actually it doesn't matter anyways and all a person has to do is look at EA's, Ubisoft's, and Activision's financial statements to get a true picture of how much money they've made off each system for the year. For example the lists makes EA games sold look far closer than they actually were based on EA's breakdown of the percentage of income from each console.


Well considering the gulf in resources invested in each console I'd say that's to be expected. As I've said in my OP though I think the most significant number dev's will be looking at is the dollar for dollar return on investments, a stat that financial statements fail to convey and one that I'm confident Wii would win hands down.


His premise is wrong in the first place.  That fiscal report covered a time frame in which PS3 and 360 games were released from all 3 of those companies but not Wii games.  The only Wii games released during that time from any of those companies were Madden and Boogie.  Madden sales sucked, Boogie is a bad game, and other than that you might as well ask why 1+1=2.  There is no valid market analysis from that financial report.  Now the financial reports of companies like Ubisoft during the holidays (when they released stuff on all platforms) and Capcom's recent boasts of increased stock, revenue, and market value thanks solely to the Wii are major market indicators.


My premise is wrong?  I'm talking about the quarterly reports that cover the time frame in which games were released FOR ALL 3.  Activision makes 4-5 times as much off the 360 as they do the Wii..  EA made 7-8 times as much from the 360 as they did the Wii.  Ubisoft was the only one even remotely close and that becomes more and more lopsided as the year went on.  I'm just saying when you look at the lists in the first post it doesn't tell the whole story.



naznatips on 03 December 2007
Legend11 said:
naznatips said:
Legend11 said:
Words Of Wisdom said:
Biggerboat said:
superchunk said:
Well. you are comparing 1st console to a 2nd year console. It would be better to compare 360's 1st year.

I don't think 3rd parties care about aligning launches and years of consoles, they're only interested in what's selling now! Any dev out there that is about to start a new project and wants to know which system to invest in will look at 07 data for both Wii and 360 as it's the most indicative of the current market.


The other point is that the Wii started off with a userbase of 0.

What was the 360's userbase at Nov 19th, 2006 again?


Now that the Wii's userbase has exceeded the 360's, expect better results next year.


The 360's userbase on Nov 19th, 2006 might have been balanced out by the fact that all the games still selling on the system but released prior to Nov 19th weren't being counted.  Actually it doesn't matter anyways and all a person has to do is look at EA's, Ubisoft's, and Activision's financial statements to get a true picture of how much money they've made off each system for the year.  For example the lists makes EA games sold look far closer than they actually were based on EA's breakdown of the percentage of income from each console.


Uh, Legend, other than EA none of those companies had even released a Wii game during their last fiscal report.  Those profit charts are an indicator of absolutely nothing if you don't pay attention to release lists.


I'm talking about any quarterly reports during the year not just the last one.  Activision for example did release games for the Wii during those reporting periods.

http://investor.activision.com/reports.cfm <-check out 2008 Q1 and 2008 Q2

http://www.ubisoftgroup.com/index.php?p=194&art_id= <-has reports that cover the period in question


 http://www.ubisoftgroup.com/gallery_files/site/270/1042/1297.pdf?PHPSESSID=5754eaf7288c6759223054329c360db4

That would be the only report when Ubisoft released majro Wii games.  And look at that... the Wii was 21% of their revenue compared to the 360 at 28%.  Try reading your own sources next time. 

Oh, and here are all the Wii games released by Activision prior to the ending fo the Q2 Financial Report:


Spider-Man 3, Shrek the Third , TRANSFORMERS: The Game , Hot Wheels: Beat That! and continued catalog sales of our fiscal 2007 third quarter releases, Call of Duty 3, Marvel: Ultimate Alliance, World Series of Poker: Tournament of Champions , Rapala Tournament Fishing , and Tony Hawk’s Downhill Jam.

5 of those are launch games.  All of them are cheap and bad games.  Xbox 360 accounted for 23% of their revenue during that time (Wii 5%).  Surely that has nothing to do with them releasing Guitar Hero 2, X-Men, and Lego Star Wars 2 (Plus all the shovelware multiplats) on the Xbox 360 and a bunch of shovelware on the Wii.  

So, in summary:  Ubisoft simply didn't release a Wii game.  When they did, revenue was almost equal.  Activision released a bunch of shovelware vs. 2 of their biggest games on the 360 plus all that same shovelware, and made about 5X the amount of money on the 360.  Surprise surprise.  



Around the Network
Legend11 on 03 December 2007
naznatips said:
Legend11 said:
naznatips said:
Legend11 said:
Words Of Wisdom said:
Biggerboat said:
superchunk said:
Well. you are comparing 1st console to a 2nd year console. It would be better to compare 360's 1st year.

I don't think 3rd parties care about aligning launches and years of consoles, they're only interested in what's selling now! Any dev out there that is about to start a new project and wants to know which system to invest in will look at 07 data for both Wii and 360 as it's the most indicative of the current market.


The other point is that the Wii started off with a userbase of 0.

What was the 360's userbase at Nov 19th, 2006 again?


Now that the Wii's userbase has exceeded the 360's, expect better results next year.


The 360's userbase on Nov 19th, 2006 might have been balanced out by the fact that all the games still selling on the system but released prior to Nov 19th weren't being counted.  Actually it doesn't matter anyways and all a person has to do is look at EA's, Ubisoft's, and Activision's financial statements to get a true picture of how much money they've made off each system for the year.  For example the lists makes EA games sold look far closer than they actually were based on EA's breakdown of the percentage of income from each console.


Uh, Legend, other than EA none of those companies had even released a Wii game during their last fiscal report.  Those profit charts are an indicator of absolutely nothing if you don't pay attention to release lists.


I'm talking about any quarterly reports during the year not just the last one.  Activision for example did release games for the Wii during those reporting periods.

http://investor.activision.com/reports.cfm <-check out 2008 Q1 and 2008 Q2

http://www.ubisoftgroup.com/index.php?p=194&art_id= <-has reports that cover the period in question


 http://www.ubisoftgroup.com/gallery_files/site/270/1042/1297.pdf?PHPSESSID=5754eaf7288c6759223054329c360db4

That would be the only report when Ubisoft released majro Wii games.  And look at that... the Wii was 21% of their revenue compared to the 360 at 28%.  Try reading your own sources next time. 

Oh, and here are all the Wii games released by Activision prior to the ending fo the Q2 Financial Report:


Spider-Man 3, Shrek the Third , TRANSFORMERS: The Game , Hot Wheels: Beat That! and continued catalog sales of our fiscal 2007 third quarter releases, Call of Duty 3, Marvel: Ultimate Alliance, World Series of Poker: Tournament of Champions , Rapala Tournament Fishing , and Tony Hawk’s Downhill Jam.

5 of those are launch games.  All of them are cheap and bad games.  Xbox 360 accounted for 23% of their revenue during that time (Wii 5%).  Surely that has nothing to do with them releasing Guitar Hero 2, X-Men, and Lego Star Wars 2 (Plus all the shovelware multiplats) on the Xbox 360 and a bunch of shovelware on the Wii.  

So, in summary:  Ubisoft simply didn't release a Wii game.  When they did, revenue was almost equal.  Activision released a bunch of shovelware vs. 2 of their biggest games on the 360 plus all that same shovelware, and made about 3X the amount of money on the 360.  Surprise surprise.  


I see, so you pick the one report where the Wii actually looks decent.  Well Ubisoft can't ignore the other reports in which the Wii is far behind.



Biggerboat on 03 December 2007
Legend11 said:
naznatips said:
 


My premise is wrong? I'm talking about the quarterly reports that cover the time frame in which games were released FOR ALL 3. Activision makes 4-5 times as much off the 360 as they do the Wii.. EA is probably even more lopsided. Ubisoft was the only one even remotely close and that becomes more and more lopsided as the year went on. I'm just saying when you look at the lists in the first post it actually looks far closer than it actually is.


Well Activision's contribution to Wii's lineup hasn't exactly been stellar. I'm betting that if they have indeed made 4-5 times more on 360 that they've allocated more than 4-5 times the resources. Again, at the risk of repeating my point.....well......repeatedly, you should really be looking at dollar for dollar return on investments. 



Hus said:

Grow up and stop trolling.

kirby007 on 03 December 2007

@ legend11

what is your problem with this?



 "I think people should define the word crap" - Kirby007

Join the Prediction League http://www.vgchartz.com/predictions

Instead of seeking to convince others, we can be open to changing our own minds, and seek out information that contradicts our own steadfast point of view. Maybe it’ll turn out that those who disagree with you actually have a solid grasp of the facts. There’s a slight possibility that, after all, you’re the one who’s wrong.

Biggerboat on 03 December 2007
Legend11 said:
naznatips said:
Legend11 said:
naznatips said:
Legend11 said:
Words Of Wisdom said:
Biggerboat said:
superchunk said:
Well. you are comparing 1st console to a 2nd year console. It would be better to compare 360's 1st year.

I don't think 3rd parties care about aligning launches and years of consoles, they're only interested in what's selling now! Any dev out there that is about to start a new project and wants to know which system to invest in will look at 07 data for both Wii and 360 as it's the most indicative of the current market.


The other point is that the Wii started off with a userbase of 0.

What was the 360's userbase at Nov 19th, 2006 again?


Now that the Wii's userbase has exceeded the 360's, expect better results next year.


The 360's userbase on Nov 19th, 2006 might have been balanced out by the fact that all the games still selling on the system but released prior to Nov 19th weren't being counted. Actually it doesn't matter anyways and all a person has to do is look at EA's, Ubisoft's, and Activision's financial statements to get a true picture of how much money they've made off each system for the year. For example the lists makes EA games sold look far closer than they actually were based on EA's breakdown of the percentage of income from each console.


Uh, Legend, other than EA none of those companies had even released a Wii game during their last fiscal report. Those profit charts are an indicator of absolutely nothing if you don't pay attention to release lists.


I'm talking about any quarterly reports during the year not just the last one. Activision for example did release games for the Wii during those reporting periods.

http://investor.activision.com/reports.cfm <-check out 2008 Q1 and 2008 Q2

http://www.ubisoftgroup.com/index.php?p=194&art_id= <-has reports that cover the period in question


http://www.ubisoftgroup.com/gallery_files/site/270/1042/1297.pdf?PHPSESSID=5754eaf7288c6759223054329c360db4

That would be the only report when Ubisoft released majro Wii games. And look at that... the Wii was 21% of their revenue compared to the 360 at 28%. Try reading your own sources next time.

Oh, and here are all the Wii games released by Activision prior to the ending fo the Q2 Financial Report:


Spider-Man 3, Shrek the Third , TRANSFORMERS: The Game , Hot Wheels: Beat That! and continued catalog sales of our fiscal 2007 third quarter releases, Call of Duty 3, Marvel: Ultimate Alliance, World Series of Poker: Tournament of Champions , Rapala Tournament Fishing , and Tony Hawk’s Downhill Jam.

5 of those are launch games. All of them are cheap and bad games. Xbox 360 accounted for 23% of their revenue during that time (Wii 5%). Surely that has nothing to do with them releasing Guitar Hero 2, X-Men, and Lego Star Wars 2 (Plus all the shovelware multiplats) on the Xbox 360 and a bunch of shovelware on the Wii.

So, in summary: Ubisoft simply didn't release a Wii game. When they did, revenue was almost equal. Activision released a bunch of shovelware vs. 2 of their biggest games on the 360 plus all that same shovelware, and made about 3X the amount of money on the 360. Surprise surprise.


I see, so you pick the one report where the Wii actually looks decent. Well Ubisoft can't ignore the other reports in which the Wii is far behind.


But dollar for dollar........investment............budgets.........ah screw it.



Hus said:

Grow up and stop trolling.

FreeTalkLive rocks! on 03 December 2007
Legend11 said:
 

My premise is wrong? I'm talking about the quarterly reports that cover the time frame in which games were released FOR ALL 3. Activision makes 4-5 times as much off the 360 as they do the Wii.. EA made 7-8 times as much from the 360 as they did the Wii. Ubisoft was the only one even remotely close and that becomes more and more lopsided as the year went on. I'm just saying when you look at the lists in the first post it doesn't tell the whole story.

 Oh, I didn't see any of that.  So you are saying these companies listed how much they made (profits)?  I just thought they listed sales which is not the same thing.  Of course, they released more games on the 360 and charged more for them.  Profits and average profits per well reviewed game and the issues that seem important to me.  

 



currently playing: Desktop Tower Defense (PC), Puzzle Quest (DS), Trauma Center New Blood (Wii), Guitar Hero III (Wii), Ghost Squad (Wii), Actraiser (SNES), Donkey Kong County (SNES), The Legend of Zelda (NES), Kirby's Adventure (NES)

will play next: Paper Mario (N64), Golden Axe II (Sega), NiGHTS (Wii)

 

Join the Ron Paul RLOVEution, support Ron Paul for president in the 2008 Republican presidential primary! http://www.ronpaul2008.com