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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Wii vs 360 3rd party sales!

naznatips on 03 December 2007
Bodhesatva said:

Ugh, I think everyone here is being a bit unfair.

Legend is absolutely correct that 3rd parties have made more money on the 360 by a fairly wide margin in the last year, even if the above graph may suggest otherwise.

Naznatips (and others) are correct to point out that this is largely due to the quality of support: the Wii has largely gotten shovelware, the 360 has gotten solid, well funded games, which naturally favors the 360 in that case. 

But the original point of this topic is: "Third parties are doing quite well on the Wii, even in comparison to the 360," the answer is "that's not entirely true," even if the reason it's not entirely true is because the Wii has gotten terrible support. It must be mentioned that the 360's support has been much stronger from the aforementioned companies; at the same time, Legend is absolutely correct that these companies have made substantially more money off their 360 ventures than their Wii ones -- again, even if the reason for that disparity is crappy games on the Wii. 

Okay? Is that fair?  


 I agree.  What I've been trying to show is that the companies that DO give strong support to the Wii (Capcom, Ubisoft) got strong returns on their investments.  Is that not a valid claim?



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Bodhesatva on 03 December 2007

naznatips said:
Bodhesatva said:

Ugh, I think everyone here is being a bit unfair.

Legend is absolutely correct that 3rd parties have made more money on the 360 by a fairly wide margin in the last year, even if the above graph may suggest otherwise.

Naznatips (and others) are correct to point out that this is largely due to the quality of support: the Wii has largely gotten shovelware, the 360 has gotten solid, well funded games, which naturally favors the 360 in that case.

But the original point of this topic is: "Third parties are doing quite well on the Wii, even in comparison to the 360," the answer is "that's not entirely true," even if the reason it's not entirely true is because the Wii has gotten terrible support. It must be mentioned that the 360's support has been much stronger from the aforementioned companies; at the same time, Legend is absolutely correct that these companies have made substantially more money off their 360 ventures than their Wii ones -- again, even if the reason for that disparity is crappy games on the Wii.

Okay? Is that fair?


I agree. What I've been trying to show is that the companies that DO give strong support to the Wii (Capcom, Ubisoft) got strong returns on their investments. Is that not a valid claim?


Yes it is.



http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a324/Arkives/Disccopy.jpg%5B/IMG%5D">http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a324/Arkives/Disccopy.jpg%5B/IMG%5D">

naznatips on 03 December 2007

Thank you, that's all I was trying to say. Past that, I agree that some companies such as EA and Activision have struggled to make much profit on the Wii. However, I don't think it's really fair to say they have struggled when they never really tried in the first place. They are certainly not out of opportunities to make profit on the Wii.



Bodhesatva on 03 December 2007

But it's fair for Legend to correct the original premise of this thread. The original post didn't say: "The third parties giving the Wii solid support are benefiting at approximately the same rate as those who put their support behind the 360," but rather "third parties are doing about as well on the Wii as they are on the 360" in a more general sense. The first statement -- the one you made -- is valid, but the second isn't. That latter, more generaly statement is much closer to what the original post implied, and that just isn't fair.

Legend SHOULD have pointed out that some third parties are doing quite well on the Wii -- but then again, the original poster SHOULD have pointed out that some aren't, as well.



http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a324/Arkives/Disccopy.jpg%5B/IMG%5D">http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a324/Arkives/Disccopy.jpg%5B/IMG%5D">

Biggerboat on 03 December 2007
Bodhesatva said:

But it's fair for Legend to correct the original premise of this thread. The original post didn't say: "The third parties giving the Wii solid support are benefiting at approximately the same rate as those who put their support behind the 360," but rather "third parties are doing about as well on the Wii as they are on the 360" in a more general sense. The first statement -- the one you made -- is valid, but the second isn't. That latter, more generaly statement is much closer to what the original post implied, and that just isn't fair.

Legend SHOULD have pointed out that some third parties are doing quite well on the Wii -- but then again, the original poster SHOULD have pointed out that some aren't, as well.


Well if you look at my OP again you'll see that I recognise that the 360 to Wii sales are at a 1.82:1 ratio and then bump it up to 2.5 when taking into account other factors that the comparison doesn't show. Now you could argue that I didn't increase that ratio enough but you can't argue that I didn't endevour to give a realistic picture of the 2 platform's sales or that I was claiming Wii was "doing about as well".

Hus said:

Grow up and stop trolling.

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naznatips on 03 December 2007
Bodhesatva said:

But it's fair for Legend to correct the original premise of this thread. The original post didn't say: "The third parties giving the Wii solid support are benefiting at approximately the same rate as those who put their support behind the 360," but rather "third parties are doing about as well on the Wii as they are on the 360" in a more general sense. The first statement -- the one you made -- is valid, but the second isn't. That latter, more generaly statement is much closer to what the original post implied, and that just isn't fair.

Legend SHOULD have pointed out that some third parties are doing quite well on the Wii -- but then again, the original poster SHOULD have pointed out that some aren't, as well.


The original poster's intent was to show that 3rd party sales overall have not been that bad on the Wii.  While it would have been better for him to break down those sales more specifically, his original point is still valid.  



Biggerboat on 03 December 2007
Legend11 said:
naznatips said:
Legend11 said:
 

I see, so you pick the one report where the Wii actually looks decent. Well Ubisoft can't ignore the other reports in which the Wii is far behind.


For Christ's sakes Legend grow up and look at more than just the data you want to see. The only games Ubisoft released from launch all the way up through the rest of the fiscal year were Cosmic Family, Driver, and a PoP: Two Thrones. Wow, I wonder why they made globs of money on their two original IPs but very little on 3 (bad) PS2 game ports.


It still doesn't explain the other companies. EA for example had one flop after another on the Wii. Anyways I'm done arguing because it's pretty obvious that the Wii isn't the 3rd party darling some people are hoping it is. The PS2 and 360 are basically what's keeping many third parties going.


Well I see EA having 3 games on that list, hardly flops & the titles which have failed to perform are hardly big budget efforts.

Also please point out where anybody has claimed the equivalent of the bolded text above, thanks. 



Hus said:

Grow up and stop trolling.

naznatips on 03 December 2007

Btw, Legend, since you still don't seem to understand what you did wrong, let me show you:

1
Final Fantasy XI Online (delete)Square5263.450.17m
2
Project Sylpheed (delete)Square3784.780.05m
3
Final Fantasy XI Online: Wings of the Goddess Expansion Pack (delete)Square239.500.04m
4
Final Fantasy XI All In One Pack (delete)Square1473.570.02m

 

21
Dragon Quest Swords: The Masked Queen and the Tower of Mirrors (delete)Square Enix7,1257.660.49m


Oh look, Square Enix made 4 360 games and they all sold much less  than 1 Wii game.  Obviously Square Enix games are unsuccessful on the 360.

Now lets look at all the things I ignored in that statement:

-Square Enix is a Japanese focused publisher, and the 360 hasn't sold nearly as much as the Wii in Japan.
-3 of those games are MMOs (and expansions) which are limited by the amount of 360 owners who are online, and are more successful on PCs anyway.
-Project Sylpheed is a really really crappy game.
-Dragon Quest is the most popular RPG series in Japan after Pokemon, so of course it would be a bigger game.

Hopefully this little excersize helps you understand why you can't make blanket statements without taking other variables into account.  



Biggerboat on 03 December 2007
naznatips said:
Bodhesatva said:

But it's fair for Legend to correct the original premise of this thread. The original post didn't say: "The third parties giving the Wii solid support are benefiting at approximately the same rate as those who put their support behind the 360," but rather "third parties are doing about as well on the Wii as they are on the 360" in a more general sense. The first statement -- the one you made -- is valid, but the second isn't. That latter, more generaly statement is much closer to what the original post implied, and that just isn't fair.

Legend SHOULD have pointed out that some third parties are doing quite well on the Wii -- but then again, the original poster SHOULD have pointed out that some aren't, as well.


The original poster's intent was to show that 3rd party sales overall have not been that bad on the Wii. While it would have been better for him to break down those sales more specifically, his original point is still valid.


I'm not sure how long it would take to list all the significant 3rd parties' games and their sales over the 2 platforms but I do know it's longer than I'm willing to spend putting together a post on a gaming website. Even then that would mean dismissing smaller devs like Atlus who have made infinitely more profit on Wii than 360. Obviously 360 numbers would look better than in reality when focussing on the big devs as they're the only ones who can afford to put a decent game out on the system.

I realise you're fighting my cause here naz but I think making massive lists would only end up in numbers which would again prove that Wii aint doing as badly compared to 360 as many thought. 



Hus said:

Grow up and stop trolling.

ItsaMii on 03 December 2007
naznatips said:

Btw, Legend, since you still don't seem to understand what you did wrong, let me show you:

1
Final Fantasy XI Online (delete)Square5263.450.17m
2
Project Sylpheed (delete)Square3784.780.05m
3
Final Fantasy XI Online: Wings of the Goddess Expansion Pack (delete)Square239.500.04m
4
Final Fantasy XI All In One Pack (delete)Square1473.570.02m

 

21
Dragon Quest Swords: The Masked Queen and the Tower of Mirrors (delete)Square Enix7,1257.660.49m


Oh look, Square Enix made 4 360 games and they all sold much less than 1 Wii game. Obviously Square Enix games are unsuccessful on the 360.

Now lets look at all the things I ignored in that statement:

-Square Enix is a Japanese focused publisher, and the 360 hasn't sold nearly as much as the Wii in Japan.
-3 of those games are MMOs (and expansions) which are limited by the amount of 360 owners who are online, and are more successful on PCs anyway.
-Project Sylpheed is a really really crappy game.
-Dragon Quest is the most popular RPG series in Japan after Pokemon, so of course it would be a bigger game.

Hopefully this little excersize helps you understand why you can't make blanket statements without taking other variables into account.


+ 100000 for you. Playing too much PW really helps to find faulty arguments and contradictions.

*edit* I am not sure, but I think those 360 games cost a lot more than the DQ one. The difference is that argument helps Wii in both cases. One low budget game sold a lot more than 4 medium-high budget games and low budget cash in games sell a lot less on the Wii than high budget games on other platforms



Satan said:

"You are for ever angry, all you care about is intelligence, but I repeat again that I would give away all this superstellar life, all the ranks and honours, simply to be transformed into the soul of a merchant's wife weighing eighteen stone and set candles at God's shrine."