one of the best posts (if not the best) i've ever seen on off topic forums.

RESPECT EARNED, SIR

I am actually a convert to the Orthodox faith, after going through about everything else short of maybe Lutheran or Episcopalian (this is on top of being born into the Roman Catholic faith).  I did attend a Pentecostal Church and a Baptist one.  I may of also done Methodist to.  There is also the churches of Christ/Christian Churches, and non-denominational also.  I did offer people a chance to chat about this with me (drop me a personal message), but I think this thread is reaching its end.

I could also discuss a bit about Islam if people like to.  But this thread would ramble way too much.  I could also discuss my experience with the Orthodox faith (Orthodox Church of America, offshoot of Russian).  During service, which is sung the entire time (acapella chanting), outside of preaching and announcements, they serve snacks.  Ok, they are holy bread, but as you leave the service they will have a bowl of bread.  So, you get to grab snacks on the way out.

Anyhow, not sure what this has to do with much of anything.  I think people are more interested in quoting scripture that non-Christians don't care about, or venting how the Christian faith is more evil than Hitler.  I think it is written somewhere about pearls before pigs and good food to dogs not exactly being the wisest thing to do.

I agree with the above post... although there will always be different interpretations and beliefs, even among experts.

I will say this though: 

Believing that being a good person and doing the right thing will eventually get you into heaven is a dark road.  You have to truly believe that Jesus died for everyone, because he loves us all, and only through his blood are we saved.  If you really believe in Him, then you will want to do good things.

I can't remember who brought it up, but someone said something about how Christianity goes against their personal values...  Those would be "worldly" values in the eyes of a Christian, lies created by Satan to trick you into not believing the Truth.  Believe what you will, my job as a Christian is to spread the Truth to those who will listen, not to "convert" people to Christianity.  No Christian is called to actually convert people, they are called to spread the Truth.  This reality has been twisted by so many... and many feel that they must make others be Christian to get to heaven, and this is simply false.  You speak the Truth so that as many people as possible have a chance to hear it and in fear of the lives of those who have not accepted it.  In the end though... it is a choice made by every individual person:  to listen or ignore.

The fact that you think sex ed teaches kids that they aren't able to abstain from sex shows how little you understand sex ed in the first place. Then again you probably have some twisted views regarding sex so I shouldn't be surprised.

The job of a Christian is to be a disciple of Christ, and do what Christ says.  This includings being a workmanship, created in Christ Jesus, for works prepared ahead of time.   This is on a personal level.  There is also the job of the Church collectively, to do things.  I could go into a multitude of scriptures that can show that it isn't the job of EVERY Christian to always open their mouths and "share the gospel".  Christians are called to live the live and be examples, act as salt and light.  You can make yourself a quiet witness.  Of course, individuals of the Evangelical camp believe it is the job of every Christian to "witness" to others, rather than bear the witness to the truth.  A key to being a witness is that you actually experience what you talk about, and then give testimony IN THE RIGHT CONTEXT.

As far as what you believe has been twisted, it is a dicotomy set up in Evangelical theology that makes life more simple than it really is.

Consider this video, "Seen and Not Heard" by Petra:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZUdLCE6EIg

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As far as faith goes, I believe the faith that matters is one of trust, more than intellectual affirmation.  To trust counts, while understanding people can do and still it make no difference. 

Don't presume what I have or don't have, based upon stereotypical thinking.  I put this issue in the case of parental rights, and explain WHY you get the flak.  I fully understand the base biological function of sex is to extend a species and is wired to be pleasurable in the body, so that the species will continue to procreate.  Beyond this are other elements needed for the raising of offspring, to create bonding between partners, so they provide guardians over the offspring so they grow up.  This is beneficial to the species surviving, and having healthy future generations.  And if you think this is twisted, then I am not sure what basic biology books you are reading.

In regards to sex education, there is the basics of the biological side.  But human beings are more than just biological beings, and to discuss sex is to involve the entire social aspect to, and also to look to take into account what can or will happen.  You do inform about STDs, and you also can inform about protection.  In this, a parent can get concerned that a school isn't conveying enough the wishes of the parents the kids abstain until they are old enough to be able to be providers for childrens, and are established.  Because you drag religious parents who feel that their kids need to abstain and are able to, into a system that doesn't believe this, they will impose their values on others.

I just wanted to post this. But in all seriousness, there is nothing wrong with Christianity as long as it doesn't contradict facts. I was raised a Christian and went to a Christian school. The main reason I became agnostic is because I believe every religion is flawed because of humanity. I do believe there is a god, but I believe every religion is just an interpretation on what they believe god is. By not following a particular religion, I can decide what is right and wrong depending on the circumstances. I have accepted my morality. This gives me life purpose for my time is finite and every day is a blessing to help and make the world a better place.

Again you fail to understand what sex ed is about. What people learn in sex ed is information that will be usefull throughout they're entire lives (yes, the overwhelming majority of people will eventually have sex and they won't magically know about safe sex either). Abstinence only programs do nothing more than spread lies and misinformation. If religious parents want ignorant clueless children that have a negative view of sex than fine, but they should not drag down other people's children.

When will people get that their religious "values" (I use this term loosesly) are private and have no place in the public sphere?

Well, what you describe at the end seems to be about what everyone does.  People find their morality acceptable to them.  Either they will end up massaging the morality to fit their sensibilities, or develop some other work around so that it fits.  Of course, there is a case where people end up dealing with unresolved guilt to.  Even in religion, people will find their own work around.  Collectively, it doesn't seem to work all that well.  I witness in Protestant circles the degree to which they will vary their beliefs, and this rip apart groups.  I have even seen it with the churches of Christ, where the group fragments, and believes that sensibility is enough to get it.  And then, look around.  We still have poor, oppression and suffering.  Maybe someone in their own box has a fine life, like you probably don't face too many challenges.  But un the bigger picture, who knows.

As for the picture you listed, this would go to the original poster.  People DO get what Christianity is about.  It isn't a case of them NOT getting it, and somehow they need insight into thing.  It is because it just doesn't resonate and make sense.  What I think people in the Evangelical camp have is a belief system forged in a society that was mainly of a Christian world view, and found that their beliefs were much more easy to take, and kinder than the demands of the cultural views.  You had individuals who happened to not have peace in their faith, and feel they needed slack.  So, they read some scriptures that seem to make it so simple, and thus, they find peace.

I will also take a bit of issue with individuals who happen to have God being "merciful" and saying God is great, simply because all God demands of you is to believe.  See, it is easy and you get heaven when you die.  I will take it that, if the main thing you get from the Christian faith is slack, because God isn't demanding, that isn't much up from what atheism or agnosticism offers.

Of course, on this, I can look at the flip side at the heart of what is in the Book of Job.  How exactly do we measure what is "righteousness"?  If being a righteous (of  high ethical character and oing what you believe) has rewards, then how do we know people don't do it for the rewards?   I hear people repeatedly charge that Christians do good works, because somehow God offers them heaven when they die, and aren't really righteous.  But if there is no difference the Christian faith makes at all in a meaningful way, how is the charge that the Christian faith is useless, and not worth following also to be answered?

No set of values stays only in private areas.  Every value a person has shapes their worldview and causes an impact on what they want.  The idea of truth, value of science, compassion for the needy, freedom, character, integrity, and so on are all things that are needed in the public sphere to be discussed because it shapes everything regarding the nature of laws, and whether or not laws are even needed.  It is also important to know the meaning of religion, before you say that.  Religion is meant to be that which one is anchored to, and it shapes everything about a person.  Unless you want the public sphere to consist of absolutely no values, barring the exchange of goods and services in a marketplace, how then is it going to remain private?

Consider the case of the poor in a nation vs the right to own property.  What if there is a desire to help the poor, but insufficient funds are being voluntarily donated to do this, and the poor remain?  If the public sphere has no values, then how can you justify there either be a right to private property, or end up using coersive taxes to take money from people with it, and help the poor?  The private values do have an impact in this area. 

Ok, I can detect you put "values" in quotes, because you consider the values of religious people either dangerous or a complete waste of time, so thus, stick them in quotes.  Values such as loving God, avoiding sin, and raising one's childern in a way that is seen as honoring God, wouldn't be important to you, but they are to the parents of religious kids.  Well, here is the kicker.  Unless you don't believe parents ultimately are responsible for their kids being raised right, but it belongs to the state, you are going to deal with parents who want to teach their kids stuff you disagree with and which could be counterproductive in your eyes.  Well, because you would value parental rights, then you have to put up with this.  The only way to NOT have this is to enable people to have proper fund to raise their kids and enable them to be able to be taught wherever, outside of public school systems, so they don't push abstinence.  Get the parents and their kids out of the school system, and you will be able to avoid what you want to.  But so long as the parents are forced to have their kids in the school system, you will get them arguing about this.