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Forums - Sony Discussion - PS EYE can do what NATAL can:

joeorc said:
MARCUSDJACKSON said:

you two have me reading. why? interesting though.

because there is the argument that you have to have a 3d camera to track in true 3D which is not true.  that still does not mean the 2d camera could not track something in 3D space though, because it can.

It can use an object to track that object's position in a 3d space which is what the EYETOY does indeed do.


well. im learnning something?



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With the Eyetoy, could a 3D model be controlled by tracking your body or does it just sense where limbs are flailing? Also, can the Eyetoy see multiple people?

I've only seen a few Eyetoy games and most of them involve seeing your self smacking crap or making gestures. Is that all the Eyetoy was capable of?

The Eyetoy seems like a very limited device in comparison.



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joeorc said:
ironman said:
joeorc said:
ironman said:
MARCUSDJACKSON said:
joeorc said:
ironman said:
FF_Fanatic said:
joeorc said:
account2099 said:

 

 

 

 

 

  I wouldn't keep my hopes up if I were you. Move isn't going to sell that great.

 

 

neither is natal! they both suck. and by the way. your agurment is weak and isn't worht debaiting.

You'll eat those words. I guarantee. (Unless MS fails to gather in devs for this thing...which I don't see since many devs are excited about this.) Anyway, nice to see you taking the cheap way out. Just because you can't argue with common sense does not give you the right to say my argument is weak.

@ Joeorc

No, just no, in order for it to see in true 3D it needs a 2nd camera. It's REPLICATING 3D And it does it fairly well from what I've seen, but it is NOT on par with Natal, and it was seen as a gimmick since it didn't really have any good games. Thats why I say if Natal doesn't have games behind it, it will fail, but I don't think MS is going to let it go the way of the eye since they have invested so heavily in this. Also, Don't get me wrong Move is interesting and fairly innovative tech, were it not for Natal, I think it would have boosted Sony to 1st place for the best conference, but there is a reason Natal stole the show, it is different the what the wii has to offer, it looks new, it looks technologically advanced, and it looks fun. Move looks like a direct ripoff of the Wiimote and as such the people are drawn to Natal because it's different and "New" 

what is it you do not under stand..that it can track in 3d or

that it

CAN TRACK IN 3D!

the people who develop on it has stated that it can track in 3D!

hmm. I think Im going with Anton on this one

How many times must I say this, 2D replicating 3D is NOT 3D it's 2D on crack. It's easier for everybody to say "it tracks 3D" rather than saying "it's 2D replicating 3D motion tracking" and it sounds better too. It's physically impossible for a 2D camera to track in true 3D. 

you can say it all you want that does not mean your right!

The Eye does all the depth tracking based on its view of the controller.

"The camera does 3D tracking. The Wii has a camera looking at the dots. But the reason it can't do 3D is because, as [people] turn away, [the hardware] loses sight of the dots -- and the dots move around in unpredictable ways.

"Because our camera is looking at the controller, going back to the blind analogy, it's like those are our eyes that are watching the room for us. That's how we can tell position."

He switches the swords to models of a PS Move motion controller. The device is perfectly rendered to the controller we're holding in our hands, right down to the buttons as I move the controller around to face the PS Eye.

"This is the shape of the controller, overlayed on the video. You can actually see how precise this device is. If there was any error, you wouldn't see the controller where it's supposed to be. It's exactly where we are."

This is tracking your head and your hands. Natal is tracking your full body, so its doing the legs too. When we did Eye Toy, we found that actually these are the most important parts because they define your body. Most of the time people aren't doing kicks. It's more important to know precisely where your hand is rather than roughly know where your body is.

"I have these fine finger controls. I can squeeze the trigger. With Natal what you get is more like position. You don't actually get angles of your arms very well. We think that's more important. We're tracking less, but I think we're tracking in a more comprehensive way."

example:

The PlayStation Eye is an integral part of Sony's motion controller, the PlayStation Move. Using the illuminated sphere on top of the Move controller, the camera can track the player's movement in 3 dimensions by sensing the sphere's image size and speed. Depending on the game, the camera can also place the player's image into the gameworld, and map objects onto the Move so that the player appears to holding weapons, tools, or other objects.

My point is, no matter how you spin it, a 2D camera is NOT capable of tracking in REAL 3D. It can only replicate it. using the method that move does. Take a known object and measure it's size against a it's known size, That is NOT true 3D. 



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joeorc said:
MARCUSDJACKSON said:

you two have me reading. why? interesting though.

because there is the argument that you have to have a 3d camera to track in true 3D which is not true.  that still does not mean the 2d camera could not track something in 3D space though, because it can.

It can use an object to track that object's position in a 3d space which is what the EYETOY does indeed do.

Ugh, fail, it's because there is an argument that a 2D camera can track in 3D...whit is physically impossible. It can only replicated, which is not TRUE 3D.



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Don't forget your helmet there, Master Chief!

ironman said:
joeorc said:
MARCUSDJACKSON said:

you two have me reading. why? interesting though.

because there is the argument that you have to have a 3d camera to track in true 3D which is not true.  that still does not mean the 2d camera could not track something in 3D space though, because it can.

It can use an object to track that object's position in a 3d space which is what the EYETOY does indeed do.

Ugh, fail, it's because there is an argument that a 2D camera can track in 3D...whit is physically impossible. It can only replicated, which is not TRUE 3D.

...like I stated it may not be able to track by sight @multiple angle's because there is no second camera, that still does not stop a 2D camera tracking an object in 3D space which the EYETOY DOES INDEED DO. THERE IS NO REPLICATION ABOUT IT.

IT IS TRACKING IN 3D.

 

 



I AM BOLO

100% lover "nothing else matter's" after that...

ps:

Proud psOne/2/3/p owner.  I survived Aplcalyps3 and all I got was this lousy Signature.

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joeorc said:
ironman said:
joeorc said:
MARCUSDJACKSON said:

you two have me reading. why? interesting though.

because there is the argument that you have to have a 3d camera to track in true 3D which is not true.  that still does not mean the 2d camera could not track something in 3D space though, because it can.

It can use an object to track that object's position in a 3d space which is what the EYETOY does indeed do.

Ugh, fail, it's because there is an argument that a 2D camera can track in 3D...whit is physically impossible. It can only replicated, which is not TRUE 3D.

...like I stated it may not be able to track by sight @multiple angle's because there is no second camera, that still does not stop a 2D camera tracking an object in 3D space which the EYETOY DOES INDEED DO. THERE IS NO REPLICATION ABOUT IT.

IT IS TRACKING IN 3D.

 

 

No no no no!!!! The camera is NOT tracking in 3D. it is using software to gage where the object is based on size differances. That is artificial 3D, not true 3D. It has no Z Plane, only an X and a Y. 



Past Avatar picture!!!

Don't forget your helmet there, Master Chief!

Mr Puggsly said:
With the Eyetoy, could a 3D model be controlled by tracking your body or does it just sense where limbs are flailing? Also, can the Eyetoy see multiple people?

I've only seen a few Eyetoy games and most of them involve seeing your self smacking crap or making gestures. Is that all the Eyetoy was capable of?

The Eyetoy seems like a very limited device in comparison.

for instance:

it does track your hand's motion because the controller is the reference point in a 3D space.

because it know's where the Move controller is, it know by reference where your hand is.

so if your hand move's forward or back or in any direction the camera track's the position of the remote and can track your hand's movement.

like i stated it's not 3d tracking by sight but by the reference point of the controller in 3d space.

yes the eyetoy can see multiple people in 2D but in order to track in a 3D space it need's an object that would be it's reference point/ A lighted sphere work's best because the focus point of the lighted sphere. even the Wii motion tracking track's in a 3D space.

 

 

 



I AM BOLO

100% lover "nothing else matter's" after that...

ps:

Proud psOne/2/3/p owner.  I survived Aplcalyps3 and all I got was this lousy Signature.

ironman said:
joeorc said:
ironman said:
joeorc said:
MARCUSDJACKSON said:

you two have me reading. why? interesting though.

because there is the argument that you have to have a 3d camera to track in true 3D which is not true.  that still does not mean the 2d camera could not track something in 3D space though, because it can.

It can use an object to track that object's position in a 3d space which is what the EYETOY does indeed do.

Ugh, fail, it's because there is an argument that a 2D camera can track in 3D...whit is physically impossible. It can only replicated, which is not TRUE 3D.

...like I stated it may not be able to track by sight @multiple angle's because there is no second camera, that still does not stop a 2D camera tracking an object in 3D space which the EYETOY DOES INDEED DO. THERE IS NO REPLICATION ABOUT IT.

IT IS TRACKING IN 3D.

 

 

No no no no!!!! The camera is NOT tracking in 3D. it is using software to gage where the object is based on size differances. That is artificial 3D, not true 3D. It has no Z Plane, only an X and a Y. 

it's not artificial.it track's an object in a 3D space, just because it cannot see the object by sight does not mean it does not see it's reference point in a 3D area of Space. you are trying to say in order for it to track in 3d it must do it by multiple camera angle's which is not true at all.

that's a fact man. look were going to keep going back an forth over this it does not make it any less true with what i am saying, hell like i stated the Wii track's motion in 3D space. just not by site!



I AM BOLO

100% lover "nothing else matter's" after that...

ps:

Proud psOne/2/3/p owner.  I survived Aplcalyps3 and all I got was this lousy Signature.

joeorc said:
Mr Puggsly said:
With the Eyetoy, could a 3D model be controlled by tracking your body or does it just sense where limbs are flailing? Also, can the Eyetoy see multiple people?

I've only seen a few Eyetoy games and most of them involve seeing your self smacking crap or making gestures. Is that all the Eyetoy was capable of?

The Eyetoy seems like a very limited device in comparison.

for instance:

it does track your hand's motion because the controller is the reference point in a 3D space.

because it know's where the Move controller is, it know by reference where your hand is.

so if your hand move's forward or back or in any direction the camera track's the position of the remote and can trach your hand's movement.

like i stated it's not 3d tracking by sight but by the reference point of the controller in 3d space.

yes the eyetoy can see multiple people in 2D but in order to track in a 3D space it need's an object that would be it's reference point/ A lighted sphere work's best because the focus point of the lighted sphere. even the Wii motion tracking track's in a 3D space.

 

 

 

That's a software perception of a Z-plane and not a true Z plane. The camera is only capable of 2D tracking, it cannot physically see in 3D.



Past Avatar picture!!!

Don't forget your helmet there, Master Chief!

ironman said:
joeorc said:
Mr Puggsly said:
With the Eyetoy, could a 3D model be controlled by tracking your body or does it just sense where limbs are flailing? Also, can the Eyetoy see multiple people?

I've only seen a few Eyetoy games and most of them involve seeing your self smacking crap or making gestures. Is that all the Eyetoy was capable of?

The Eyetoy seems like a very limited device in comparison.

for instance:

it does track your hand's motion because the controller is the reference point in a 3D space.

because it know's where the Move controller is, it know by reference where your hand is.

so if your hand move's forward or back or in any direction the camera track's the position of the remote and can trach your hand's movement.

like i stated it's not 3d tracking by sight but by the reference point of the controller in 3d space.

yes the eyetoy can see multiple people in 2D but in order to track in a 3D space it need's an object that would be it's reference point/ A lighted sphere work's best because the focus point of the lighted sphere. even the Wii motion tracking track's in a 3D space.

 

 

 

That's a software perception of a Z-plane and not a true Z plane. The camera is only capable of 2D tracking, it cannot physically see in 3D.

i am not saying it can see in 3D i am not saying that...I am saying it can track and object in 3d space, that by no mean's excludes the camera from tracking an object in 3D. just because it cannot see it does not mean it cannot track it!



I AM BOLO

100% lover "nothing else matter's" after that...

ps:

Proud psOne/2/3/p owner.  I survived Aplcalyps3 and all I got was this lousy Signature.