Like I said.  Until you actually start listening to others, considering their points of view, all the game recommendations in the world aren't going to change anything.

I would recommend Oblivion over TP because it is better in every way - I never said just because of the graphics.

Oh please, enlighten me to what games I don't know about.

Trash talking is making stuff up with you and Vaio have done admirably. I have corrected you on all your mistakes and you both just go off on tangents and have yet to tell me the benchmark offerings there are for the wii that is competition to their HD console counterpart offerings.

PS. Most subtle BS and bail evar....

...That's not an answer.

I've played Mario Karts, the sports games, party games, NSMB wii, SSBB and a few others.

What hardcore games would you recommend I should play? You offered and I'm willing to listen, so if you could answer your own proposal that'd be ace.

Pretty much all games from all systems show this same bias. In one way even if the coop is never used, the fact that a game has it lends positive weight to keeping the title in case you want to play it with friends later. This is the reason why I have been very critical of Sony not including local/coop play in their titles when they have instead gone for having the most graphically intensive games they can make. As the population of gamers increase then the assumption that it'll be one system for one gamer at one time is fading even faster and the larger screens can accomodate more players. This is especially true for the PS3 where you'll probably find it hooked up to the largest TV in the house as its media playback capabilities dictate, which is why Sony have been especially stupid in this regard.

Ok, before we go anywhere, what was your problem with Mario Kart Wii and SSBB?  Secondly, what sports games have you already played on the Wii? 

The reason I didn't give you straight answer to your question is because you have spent 6 pages not really listening to other people's answers to your questions.

Its not been successful because graphical improvements are bad, its been successful because the gameplay fundamentals they make are so good. In many ways their success has come inspite of the differing performance levels and this has not been a positive influence as it introduces dissonance in peoples minds about which system is appropriate, hence the large numbers of multi-console owners.

In the next generation it will be even more difficult to see a 3* improvement in performance due to diminishing returns. They have an advantage in that any system they release will be a huge jump over the previous generation and their support out of the gate will be astronomical. The PS3 showed how far you can get on goodwill alone, the next generation Wii console will likely show us how far you can get with effective leveraging of said goodwill.

By not selling their systems at a loss they are even more dangerous if they give people freedom to use their systems as they see fit. The likely next generation Wii will probably be as much a personal computer as console. Its easier to sell people a system and then sell them games than it is to sell them games to sell a system. Its the most obvious way to expand their market by making a console less proprietary and freeing up the imagination as to what tasks it can perform. This is the reason why I believe the Wii 2 will crush all next generation because Nintendo will learn from the successful tactics of Apple etc and throw open far greater possibilities.

http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=106008 go here for my response it's getting to cluttered in here lol

plus if you want to argue about anything else I am good with that to

Mario Kart wii was just like all the other Mario Karts (other than double dash for the obvious reason), and having played Mario Karts since the Snes, it's getting pretty damn repetative, not to mention the BS of the blue shell rendering the game into either pure luck, or just grab the motorbike, stay in second, and wheely to the end.

Compare to something like WipeoutHD, the game has barely improved whatsoever in any considerable way.

SSBB is just a cluster **** of particle effects and pad mashing. Same as the others, and no way near as deep as a game like Naruto: Gekitō Ninja Taisen! 4 for the GC. Plus some of the levels are just ****** awful, but some do look nice. But still, bugger all improvement since the last, and hardly a benchmark game when games from the generation before it are far, far better (N:GNT4).

The sports games I have played are wii sports, wii fit, sonice olympics or whatever mascot: olympics and an actual olympics game, as well as an F1 game and a kiddy golf game. A lot of the sports games just use wii gestures which renders the immitation part of the sport as BS, while giving tear inducing crappy graphics.
That said I haven't used wii motion plus BUT my point still remains about wii gestures instead of real space tracking, and a trade off of graphics for pad movement, when the game is meant to be an immitation, so somewhat of a moot point because the closer you get to moving like the real thing, the game looks hardly like the real thing, whereas it's the opposite on the HD consoles.

Other peoples answers have been "hardcore gamers like the wii because it has hardcore games". Ive yet to be told what these games are.

Also i've been told that hardcore gamers like the wii because it is innovative as it offers a steering wheel and lightgun. Last I checked these accessories were available on all the consoles. Therefore how can it be innovative when it's not offering anything new?

As much as I think the iPod has shown value in producing a more open(ish) platform, and I think there is massive potential in giving people increased freedom in using their home consoles how they want to, I would personally advise Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo to keep this open-platform very restricted. What I would personally do is produce a "Homebrew" channel that was essentially a Linux virtual machine that could run Java applications on. By limiting it to Java applications that are running on top of the virtual machine the underlying hardware would be entirely abstracted from the developer, and the likelihood that they could find an exploit to generate a soft-mod would be fairly minimal; and even if some software damaged "the system" you could easily uninstall and reinstall the VM. The primary downside to an approach like this is that the over-head would drastically reduce the performance of most applications, but with how much processing power these systems could have that isn’t much of a concern.

In terms of using something like Java it would essentially be the same operating environment as the iPhone. There would be essentially no difference between a Nintendo app store and an iPhone app store aside from the obviously vast differences in available performance. In terms of mainline apps it would remain very restriced but Nintendo as a whole doesn't need to even sell games to make the system profitable and they can use the reverse strategy of selling the systems in order to then upstream these customers into buying games. Its a very effective counter to the razor/blades model and it effectively turns the tables on any other console manufacturer who tries to make a performance behemoth and then sell it restricted and under cost.