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Forums - PC Discussion - Quite possibly the worst DRM and most ridiculous idea ever

Khuutra said:
WilliamWatts said:
Khuutra said:

The lack of a CD check isn't actually a positive! The fact that they aren't using one kind of DRM is not a benefit when there is a net loss in terms of convenience!

You are not explaining how this helps me, the consumer. I don't think that you can.

You the consumer are atypical. Im talking about the public at large here not a small sample of people with spotty wireless controllers.

There is no such thing as a typical consumer of PC games, unlss you take "typical" to mean "DRM is going to increase the chances of piracy happening"

The inability to play the game meaningfully offline is a problem.

The typical game which requires a GUI to function on a game is in proportion 50% or more likely to require an internet connection to play if you count online flash type games which are incredibly popular. 

You could say the typical Steam user has a broadband internet connection. >75%

Has a DX9c graphics card. >80%

So averaging between these two stats one could say that a typical Steam user has a broadband internet connection and a DX9c capable graphics card.

One could also state that a typical user would be more annoyed nowadays with copy protection requiring a disc than copy protection requiring online verification. A switch from the former to the latter if annoyance = piracy ought to net fewer pirates not greater number of pirates.

You're making a mountain out of a molehill here. What are the chances that you'll finally get sick of that wireless card and replace it with an N capable wireless card in the next 12 months?



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ssj12 said:

1. err.... ??? hibernate stops all functions of a PC putting it into a temparary state of sleep while saving all data stored in the flash memory of the system's ram... its like a human being being knocked out or being in a comma pretty much. Humans retain their memory even though their bodies shutdown.         I really cant believe I had to explain this.... 

Putting a PC into hibernate or suspend mode solves nothing in this situation, actually, using these functions would probably make things worse because when you awaken the PCs their internet functions are tempararily stalled.

 

2. Online functions make sense to have a need for an internet connection. Stop ignoring the fact that the single player campaigns of those two games, as well as thousands of others, dont require internet to play them. I'm seriously doubting Blizzard is stupid enough to kill of lan functionality like that, as well as, the single player function of the game. A single, or randomly timed, authentication when a connection available should be exactly what Blizzard is going to do.

Flash games? Did you seriously bring them into this? I really want to laugh at you for this. You want to know why? They dont require internet connections to use unless they have some form of leaderboard or some multiplayer function. And even then, you really dont need one.

Let me explain. Flash games use an internet plugin utility from Adobe called Adobe Flash Player. The plugin calls the software installed on ones PC to load a function inside a web browser. Its pretty much a program running inside a program.

Now, if you download the flash game file off of a website, usually a .swf file, then kill the internet connection for your PC, guess what? the game will function perfectly. Why? the game will either A. load itself in your offline web browser and function perfectly. or B. load in Adobe Flash Player's own program window. There is ZERO internet required to play the game.

 

3. I;m going to leave this comment alone... I'm just going to sit here and continue to laugh my ass off because of how stupid your comment is...

1. It saves the game state until a connection to the internet can be established. No progress is lost nor saved until the connection is established, but the game state can be held suspended in case of a low battery situation.

2. Lan is just an entry for people to pirate their games. So they are removing the function. Just because something 'oughtn't' require an internet connection doesn't mean they can't force the issue. As for flash games, how many people would do that? 1% of people who visit flash sites?

 



The PC version will bomb anyways... it comes a good couple of months later, and now this? The guys at Ubi must take some strange pills to think that they will sell this game to the masses :|



Vote the Mayor for Mayor!

Ive never had problems with DRM so this to me does not look like a big issue. My internet is fine, I can play easy. Whats wrong with their idea?



Katilian said:

Wouldn't slow them down in the slightest. The client has access to the data both before it is encrypted, and after it is decrypted, meaning so does anyone with a decent debugger. There is no actual need to break the encryption! All I need to do is piece together how the unencrypted sent save maps to the unencrypted return save. Then all I do is strip out the encryption/decryption funcationallity in the client and get it to handle the unencrypted data directly, as does my spoofed server. Or I could just complete overridely the save/load function entirely and get them to use the exact same data anyway...

This is the fundanmental flaw with DRM. (Taking the old encryption metaphor) Alice wants to send a message to Bob without Cylde being able to read it. Trouble is with DRM, Bob and Cydle are the same person.

Edit: Just focusing on your last paragraph. They only generally get a one shot at delayed piracy. Unless they come up with a new scheme for every release (expensive and time consuming, unlikely to get the money back in sales), they might slow down the crackers for the first release that uses it, but once the inner workings are known, repeating the procedure is simple.

This also assumes the crackers don't get a copy before release (usually they do) and aren't working on cracking it before it comes out. Given how many games have pirated versions before or on the release date (hint: most of them), you really need to be on the ball to get that window of opportunity.

Also, the crackers do usually generate methods that can be tailored to future releases using the same copy protection (many copy protections also share similar traits, so even if they are different, figuring them out is a fairly generic process). This is why pirated releases appear so quickly. You're also forgetting that there is "glory" in the Scene for defeating copy protections and being the first to release the pirated game. Crackers also do this for the fun and challenge, so the "effort" required for smaller releases isn't an issue.

Forcing someone to connect to the server means that functions which are required for the game to work could also execute on the server as well. Its difficult to reverse engineer an executable file without the source code available. It probably goes beyond saved games as I have recently read further on the topic. It seems to imply that part of the game itself will execute on the server. So its only an easy trip for them going forward if:

A) An unprotected version of the code is leaked ahead of time.
B) Someone gets a hold of the server executables.
C) They don't use unique keys and someone builds a keygen.

If they took part of the display driver hookup out of the local code and stored it on a server, even if they did manage to reverse engineer it it may only work on say the DX11 path for Nvidia cards in the current generation.



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WilliamWatts said:
Katilian said:

Wouldn't slow them down in the slightest. The client has access to the data both before it is encrypted, and after it is decrypted, meaning so does anyone with a decent debugger. There is no actual need to break the encryption! All I need to do is piece together how the unencrypted sent save maps to the unencrypted return save. Then all I do is strip out the encryption/decryption funcationallity in the client and get it to handle the unencrypted data directly, as does my spoofed server. Or I could just complete overridely the save/load function entirely and get them to use the exact same data anyway...

This is the fundanmental flaw with DRM. (Taking the old encryption metaphor) Alice wants to send a message to Bob without Cylde being able to read it. Trouble is with DRM, Bob and Cydle are the same person.

Edit: Just focusing on your last paragraph. They only generally get a one shot at delayed piracy. Unless they come up with a new scheme for every release (expensive and time consuming, unlikely to get the money back in sales), they might slow down the crackers for the first release that uses it, but once the inner workings are known, repeating the procedure is simple.

This also assumes the crackers don't get a copy before release (usually they do) and aren't working on cracking it before it comes out. Given how many games have pirated versions before or on the release date (hint: most of them), you really need to be on the ball to get that window of opportunity.

Also, the crackers do usually generate methods that can be tailored to future releases using the same copy protection (many copy protections also share similar traits, so even if they are different, figuring them out is a fairly generic process). This is why pirated releases appear so quickly. You're also forgetting that there is "glory" in the Scene for defeating copy protections and being the first to release the pirated game. Crackers also do this for the fun and challenge, so the "effort" required for smaller releases isn't an issue.

Forcing someone to connect to the server means that functions which are required for the game to work could also execute on the server as well. Its difficult to reverse engineer an executable file without the source code available. It probably goes beyond saved games as I have recently read further on the topic. It seems to imply that part of the game itself will execute on the server. So its only an easy trip for them going forward if:

A) An unprotected version of the code is leaked ahead of time.
B) Someone gets a hold of the server executables.
C) They don't use unique keys and someone builds a keygen.

If they took part of the display driver hookup out of the local code and stored it on a server, even if they did manage to reverse engineer it it may only work on say the DX11 path for Nvidia cards in the current generation.

Do you realize how retarded that is? They will have code run on their own servers? Basically you are telling me they have created an MMO, but even for single-player. Hate to break it to you, MMOs have pirate servers. Please stop, you are just embarassing yourself beyond belief.



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 

The future of PC Gaming is becoming like Skynet. Developers want more control over who is playing their game. Ubisoft happens to be the first developers to make this move but eventually, since it has already started, you are going to require an internet connection to play pretty much all your games. Online authentication is already a problem. Tying/Linking your CD-Key to an online account before/in order to play your games is also something PCgamers aren't happy with. This is one of reasons people believe PC gaming is dying because of the shift these developers are making.



vlad321 said:
WilliamWatts said:

Forcing someone to connect to the server means that functions which are required for the game to work could also execute on the server as well. Its difficult to reverse engineer an executable file without the source code available. It probably goes beyond saved games as I have recently read further on the topic. It seems to imply that part of the game itself will execute on the server. So its only an easy trip for them going forward if:

A) An unprotected version of the code is leaked ahead of time.
B) Someone gets a hold of the server executables.
C) They don't use unique keys and someone builds a keygen.

If they took part of the display driver hookup out of the local code and stored it on a server, even if they did manage to reverse engineer it it may only work on say the DX11 path for Nvidia cards in the current generation.

Do you realize how retarded that is? They will have code run on their own servers? Basically you are telling me they have created an MMO, but even for single-player. Hate to break it to you, MMOs have pirate servers. Please stop, you are just embarassing yourself beyond belief.

If for instance the scripting in Mass Effect 2 was server side. How in &*%('s name are they going to replicate/rewrite that part of the game?



WilliamWatts said:
vlad321 said:
WilliamWatts said:

Forcing someone to connect to the server means that functions which are required for the game to work could also execute on the server as well. Its difficult to reverse engineer an executable file without the source code available. It probably goes beyond saved games as I have recently read further on the topic. It seems to imply that part of the game itself will execute on the server. So its only an easy trip for them going forward if:

A) An unprotected version of the code is leaked ahead of time.
B) Someone gets a hold of the server executables.
C) They don't use unique keys and someone builds a keygen.

If they took part of the display driver hookup out of the local code and stored it on a server, even if they did manage to reverse engineer it it may only work on say the DX11 path for Nvidia cards in the current generation.

Do you realize how retarded that is? They will have code run on their own servers? Basically you are telling me they have created an MMO, but even for single-player. Hate to break it to you, MMOs have pirate servers. Please stop, you are just embarassing yourself beyond belief.

If for instance the scripting in Mass Effect 2 was server side. How in &*%('s name are they going to replicate/rewrite that part of the game?

 

They can copy MMO servers completely, what part of that don't you understand?



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 

vlad321 said:
WilliamWatts said:
vlad321 said:
WilliamWatts said:

Forcing someone to connect to the server means that functions which are required for the game to work could also execute on the server as well. Its difficult to reverse engineer an executable file without the source code available. It probably goes beyond saved games as I have recently read further on the topic. It seems to imply that part of the game itself will execute on the server. So its only an easy trip for them going forward if:

A) An unprotected version of the code is leaked ahead of time.
B) Someone gets a hold of the server executables.
C) They don't use unique keys and someone builds a keygen.

If they took part of the display driver hookup out of the local code and stored it on a server, even if they did manage to reverse engineer it it may only work on say the DX11 path for Nvidia cards in the current generation.

Do you realize how retarded that is? They will have code run on their own servers? Basically you are telling me they have created an MMO, but even for single-player. Hate to break it to you, MMOs have pirate servers. Please stop, you are just embarassing yourself beyond belief.

If for instance the scripting in Mass Effect 2 was server side. How in &*%('s name are they going to replicate/rewrite that part of the game?

 

They can copy MMO servers completely, what part of that don't you understand?

Wheres the pirate server for Star Trek online? Its been out for a couple of weeks and I want my pirate server.