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Forums - Sony Discussion - Jaffe Couldn’t Give a “rat’s arse” About Camera Peripherals.

Porcupine_I on 16 February 2010
RolStoppable said:
binary solo said:

@Rol: You've gone down in my estimation, Singstar is GREAT I tells ya. Although if you are playing it solo, unless you're a tweeny girl, then there is something a little sad about that picture.

Singstar is a beer game and I don't drink. Enough said.

I knew it! He is not really an Austrian!



“It appeared that there had even been demonstrations to thank Big Brother for raising the chocolate ration to twenty grams a week. And only yesterday, he reflected, it had been announced that the ration was to be reduced to twenty grams a week. Was it possible that they could swallow that, after only twenty-four hours? Yes, they swallowed it.”

- George Orwell, ‘1984’

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exindguy on 16 February 2010

Gee, I remember when we got hard, nearly indestructible, copies for $60 (and more!) Amazing how the 'industry' has convinced everyone that DD is just the greatest thing ever! (Cause, for them, it is!)




arsenicazure on 16 February 2010

Its interesting how all the studios involved in PS3 games bitch about camera/microphones in gaming...

tsk tsk



Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.

owner of : atari 2600, commodore 64, NES,gameboy,atari lynx, genesis, saturn,neogeo,DC,PS2,GC,X360, Wii

5 THINGS I'd like to see before i knock out:

a. a AAA 3D sonic title

b. a nintendo developed game that has a "M rating"

c. redesgined PS controller

d. SEGA back in the console business

e. M$ out of the OS business

RVDondaPC on 16 February 2010
Joel12345 said:
jesus kung fu magic said:
RVDondaPC said:
Showertea said:
Chairman-Mao said:
I agree. When all these stupid motion control gimmicks (a shot at all 3 consoles, not the wii) die and regular controllers live on; I'll be sitting on my couch having the last laugh.

But that's not gonna happen. Over 49% of consoles sold this generation have been the Wii, and frankly the Wii motion controls are pretty sub-par. Pretend Sony decides to abandon the Arc and go with the Dual Shock 4 next generation. Are the millions of gamers who learned to play on the Wiimote going to switch over to some weird button-and-stick thing? No, of course not. Meanwhile, Nintendo and whoever else wants to go along with the motion control revolution are going to get better and better motion controls, stealing away more and more marketshare from old control methodologies.

 

Next generation, something similar to Natal and the Arc are going to be the bundled controllers with the NextBox and the PS4. The traditional controllers will be like the Wii Classic Controller (Sold separately, and only really used for backwards compatibility)

I disagree. Though motion controls will have a place in the video game industry they will not take over traditional button controls. Either both types of controllers will be bundled with the console or the motion ones will be sold separately. The wii may have almost 50% of the market share but that system still has games that used button based controlling while the HD 50% has no motion based controls. Not to mention the revenue stream for the button based controlled games are far greater than those of the motion controls. If you wanted to include the handhelds and PC gaming then it is not even close. If Sony or Microsoft made the mistake of making motion controls the lead control design for them it would be a huge opportunity for the competitor to come along and dominate the button based controller market which is virtually every popular game not published by Nintendo.

Motion controls has it's place and it is certainly a reason why the Wii is so successful. But it being unique is also a huge reason why it is successful. It doesn't necessarily mean that if every console has motion controls it will become successful like it is with the Wii.

We all thought that analog sticks would never make it in a console controller and look where we are today.....if something catches on in this industry it basically becomes a norm of the industry (see Sony and cd's....MS and online gaming)....motion controls will be implemented in every controller next gen given the wii's success.

This guy has a point see the Wiis success and see whats coming our way natal and the arc

Analog sticks just improved upon the concept of a D-pad. It didn't change the whole dynamics of how video games were played. It's like the addition of shoulder buttons or something. It didn't really change anything. It didn't make face buttons go away. And besides every single controller since the addition of Analog sticks still has a D pad on it and every controller made that doesn't have analog sticks still has a D pad on it. 

Again your other example of CD's and Online they don't really take away anything from the gaming experience they just add to it. The same can not be said for motion control. There are certain things motion control can do better and there are things that button/stick based controllers can do better. So to think that it will just shift into motion controls and button/stick based controls will just go away doesn't really make sense. The most popular genre in the world is FPS, do you seriously see FPS games being motion controlled over button/stick controlled? I don't think so. Almost every game based on motion controls has to be dumbed down or stripped to fit the control scheme. CD's, DVD's, shoulder buttons, Analog sticks, online, all of that adds to the complexities of video games. It doesn't strip them of anything.

Even some of the most popular games on the Wii are not motion controller based. I haven't played the new super mario bros but I imagine it's mostly based on buttons and sticks with some sort of gimmick motion use that doesn't really add to the experience, Super Smash brothers is not motion based. And I'm sure there are some other ones that are not motion based or they have very small implementations of motion which is forced by Nintendo just like Sony tried to push the sixaxis to get the tech accepted. I mean Nintendo themselves doesn't even have motion controls in all of their controllers and yet you think next generation all three companies will. Unless they can find a way to make a controller that has the two analog sticks and all the buttons and capabilities of the traditional controller as well as all the uses of a motion controller there is no way that every controller will have motion controls, and I don't believe that motion controls will knock off traditional controls as the industry standard. Motion controls will have a prominent place in the industry but it will not be the standard control scheme for all three companies. 

When Sony and MS fails to see the huge sales of Nintendo yet their controller based FPS and other traditional games continue to sell well it will only be even more clear that the traditional controller is still the industry standard while the motion controls is a very popular alternative. 



Showertea on 16 February 2010
RVDondaPC said:

I disagree. Though motion controls will have a place in the video game industry they will not take over traditional button controls. Either both types of controllers will be bundled with the console or the motion ones will be sold separately. The wii may have almost 50% of the market share but that system still has games that used button based controlling while the HD 50% has no motion based controls. Not to mention the revenue stream for the button based controlled games are far greater than those of the motion controls. If you wanted to include the handhelds and PC gaming then it is not even close. If Sony or Microsoft made the mistake of making motion controls the lead control design for them it would be a huge opportunity for the competitor to come along and dominate the button based controller market which is virtually every popular game not published by Nintendo. 

Motion controls has it's place and it is certainly a reason why the Wii is so successful. But it being unique is also a huge reason why it is successful. It doesn't necessarily mean that if every console has motion controls it will become successful like it is with the Wii. 

All I can give is my personal input: After playing Resident Evil 4 on the Wii, it seriously hurt to go back to playing them with two dumb little sticks and some buttons. Motion controls can only get better, and when they do, they're gonna steal more and more franchises and genres from buttons.

Yeah, just being motion controlled doesn't mean that the systems are going to sell like the Wii, but do you really see the PS4, with the Dual Shock 4 as it's main controller, being taken seriously when up against next-gen motion control technology? And developing and bundling both with the system drives up costs. 

Remember, Nintendo invented the D-pad, and the control scheme used by previous consoles (the joystick) was dead within a generation. Two generations later, the N64 was the first system with an analog stick, and by the end of that generation the Playstation added the original Dualshock, adopting analog stick technology which became the primary control scheme for all consoles from that point on. Two generations after that, the Wii introduced motion controls, and now Sony and Microsoft are going to launch their own motion controllers this christmas. 

Sorry, bro, but motion control's already won. No eighth generation console is going to be bundled with a controller without built-in motion control.



Wii has more 20 million sellers than PS3 has 5 million sellers.

Acolyte of Disruption

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Showertea on 16 February 2010
RVDondaPC said:

Analog sticks just improved upon the concept of a D-pad. It didn't change the whole dynamics of how video games were played. It's like the addition of shoulder buttons or something. It didn't really change anything. It didn't make face buttons go away. And besides every single controller since the addition of Analog sticks still has a D pad on it and every controller made that doesn't have analog sticks still has a D pad on it. 

Again your other example of CD's and Online they don't really take away anything from the gaming experience they just add to it. The same can not be said for motion control. There are certain things motion control can do better and there are things that button/stick based controllers can do better. So to think that it will just shift into motion controls and button/stick based controls will just go away doesn't really make sense. The most popular genre in the world is FPS, do you seriously see FPS games being motion controlled over button/stick controlled? I don't think so. Almost every game based on motion controls has to be dumbed down or stripped to fit the control scheme. CD's, DVD's, shoulder buttons, Analog sticks, online, all of that adds to the complexities of video games. It doesn't strip them of anything.

Even some of the most popular games on the Wii are not motion controller based. I haven't played the new super mario bros but I imagine it's mostly based on buttons and sticks with some sort of gimmick motion use that doesn't really add to the experience, Super Smash brothers is not motion based. And I'm sure there are some other ones that are not motion based or they have very small implementations of motion which is forced by Nintendo just like Sony tried to push the sixaxis to get the tech accepted. I mean Nintendo themselves doesn't even have motion controls in all of their controllers and yet you think next generation all three companies will. Unless they can find a way to make a controller that has the two analog sticks and all the buttons and capabilities of the traditional controller as well as all the uses of a motion controller there is no way that every controller will have motion controls, and I don't believe that motion controls will knock off traditional controls as the industry standard. Motion controls will have a prominent place in the industry but it will not be the standard control scheme for all three companies. 

When Sony and MS fails to see the huge sales of Nintendo yet their controller based FPS and other traditional games continue to sell well it will only be even more clear that the traditional controller is still the industry standard while the motion controls is a very popular alternative. 

Except there's nothing preventing a motion controller from having buttons and sticks. One analog stick on the Wii + Nunchuck hasn't prevented it from becoming the best selling controller, not only for motion-controlled games but for traditional button games. Hell, even Sony tried to shoehorn motion controls into it's launch controller. With the Sixaxis and the Arc, they obviously think motion controls are a good idea, and they're likely trying to integrate them into a more traditional controller for the PS4. Likewise, Microsoft thinks that they can segment the market into a Natal and a Traditional Controller market, but I don't think that's gonna work. They're either gonna have to find a way to fit the two together into a single controller, or they're going to fail as a company for refusing to provide the technology that people want.



Wii has more 20 million sellers than PS3 has 5 million sellers.

Acolyte of Disruption

Chairman-Mao on 16 February 2010
RVDondaPC said:
Showertea said:
Chairman-Mao said:
I agree. When all these stupid motion control gimmicks (a shot at all 3 consoles, not the wii) die and regular controllers live on; I'll be sitting on my couch having the last laugh.

But that's not gonna happen. Over 49% of consoles sold this generation have been the Wii, and frankly the Wii motion controls are pretty sub-par. Pretend Sony decides to abandon the Arc and go with the Dual Shock 4 next generation. Are the millions of gamers who learned to play on the Wiimote going to switch over to some weird button-and-stick thing? No, of course not. Meanwhile, Nintendo and whoever else wants to go along with the motion control revolution are going to get better and better motion controls, stealing away more and more marketshare from old control methodologies. 

 

Next generation, something similar to Natal and the Arc are going to be the bundled controllers with the NextBox and the PS4. The traditional controllers will be like the Wii Classic Controller (Sold separately, and only really used for backwards compatibility)

I disagree. Though motion controls will have a place in the video game industry they will not take over traditional button controls. Either both types of controllers will be bundled with the console or the motion ones will be sold separately. The wii may have almost 50% of the market share but that system still has games that used button based controlling while the HD 50% has no motion based controls. Not to mention the revenue stream for the button based controlled games are far greater than those of the motion controls. If you wanted to include the handhelds and PC gaming then it is not even close. If Sony or Microsoft made the mistake of making motion controls the lead control design for them it would be a huge opportunity for the competitor to come along and dominate the button based controller market which is virtually every popular game not published by Nintendo. 

Motion controls has it's place and it is certainly a reason why the Wii is so successful. But it being unique is also a huge reason why it is successful. It doesn't necessarily mean that if every console has motion controls it will become successful like it is with the Wii. 

I agree with this post.

Slightly over half of consoles sold this gen have been PS3 + 360 which are of course standard controller based, and as well I would bet most people who have a Wii have had a console with regular controllers in the past like the PS2, Gamecube or whatever. So I doubt that many people's first consoles are the Wii and would therefore not know how to use a regular controller. I see standard controllers being bundled with controllers as usual (except for Wii 2) and motion controllers sold separately like RVDondaPC said.



Dgc1808 on 16 February 2010
arsenicazure said:
Its interesting how all the studios involved in PS3 games bitch about camera/microphones in gaming...

tsk tsk

1 2nd party studio = All PS3 game developers?

And it's not even a full studio... just one guy... 



4 ≈ One

RVDondaPC on 16 February 2010
Showertea said:
RVDondaPC said:

I disagree. Though motion controls will have a place in the video game industry they will not take over traditional button controls. Either both types of controllers will be bundled with the console or the motion ones will be sold separately. The wii may have almost 50% of the market share but that system still has games that used button based controlling while the HD 50% has no motion based controls. Not to mention the revenue stream for the button based controlled games are far greater than those of the motion controls. If you wanted to include the handhelds and PC gaming then it is not even close. If Sony or Microsoft made the mistake of making motion controls the lead control design for them it would be a huge opportunity for the competitor to come along and dominate the button based controller market which is virtually every popular game not published by Nintendo. 

Motion controls has it's place and it is certainly a reason why the Wii is so successful. But it being unique is also a huge reason why it is successful. It doesn't necessarily mean that if every console has motion controls it will become successful like it is with the Wii. 

All I can give is my personal input: After playing Resident Evil 4 on the Wii, it seriously hurt to go back to playing them with two dumb little sticks and some buttons. Motion controls can only get better, and when they do, they're gonna steal more and more franchises and genres from buttons.

Yeah, just being motion controlled doesn't mean that the systems are going to sell like the Wii, but do you really see the PS4, with the Dual Shock 4 as it's main controller, being taken seriously when up against next-gen motion control technology? And developing and bundling both with the system drives up costs. 

Remember, Nintendo invented the D-pad, and the control scheme used by previous consoles (the joystick) was dead within a generation. Two generations later, the N64 was the first system with an analog stick, and by the end of that generation the Playstation added the original Dualshock, adopting analog stick technology which became the primary control scheme for all consoles from that point on. Two generations after that, the Wii introduced motion controls, and now Sony and Microsoft are going to launch their own motion controllers this christmas. 

Sorry, bro, but motion control's already won. No eighth generation console is going to be bundled with a controller without built-in motion control.

Well MS's motion control tech doesn't use a controller and Sony has already had motion control with it's standard controller since the launch of the PS3 so... I don't see what you're barking about. All I'm saying is that motion controls wont replace the need for many buttons and analog sticks. It may be added, bundled, or hybrided, or whatever creative thing they come up with but to think it will just make the traditional control mechanics of using your fingers become secondary you will be mistaken. 



RVDondaPC on 16 February 2010
Showertea said:
RVDondaPC said:

Analog sticks just improved upon the concept of a D-pad. It didn't change the whole dynamics of how video games were played. It's like the addition of shoulder buttons or something. It didn't really change anything. It didn't make face buttons go away. And besides every single controller since the addition of Analog sticks still has a D pad on it and every controller made that doesn't have analog sticks still has a D pad on it. 

Again your other example of CD's and Online they don't really take away anything from the gaming experience they just add to it. The same can not be said for motion control. There are certain things motion control can do better and there are things that button/stick based controllers can do better. So to think that it will just shift into motion controls and button/stick based controls will just go away doesn't really make sense. The most popular genre in the world is FPS, do you seriously see FPS games being motion controlled over button/stick controlled? I don't think so. Almost every game based on motion controls has to be dumbed down or stripped to fit the control scheme. CD's, DVD's, shoulder buttons, Analog sticks, online, all of that adds to the complexities of video games. It doesn't strip them of anything.

Even some of the most popular games on the Wii are not motion controller based. I haven't played the new super mario bros but I imagine it's mostly based on buttons and sticks with some sort of gimmick motion use that doesn't really add to the experience, Super Smash brothers is not motion based. And I'm sure there are some other ones that are not motion based or they have very small implementations of motion which is forced by Nintendo just like Sony tried to push the sixaxis to get the tech accepted. I mean Nintendo themselves doesn't even have motion controls in all of their controllers and yet you think next generation all three companies will. Unless they can find a way to make a controller that has the two analog sticks and all the buttons and capabilities of the traditional controller as well as all the uses of a motion controller there is no way that every controller will have motion controls, and I don't believe that motion controls will knock off traditional controls as the industry standard. Motion controls will have a prominent place in the industry but it will not be the standard control scheme for all three companies. 

When Sony and MS fails to see the huge sales of Nintendo yet their controller based FPS and other traditional games continue to sell well it will only be even more clear that the traditional controller is still the industry standard while the motion controls is a very popular alternative. 

Except there's nothing preventing a motion controller from having buttons and sticks. One analog stick on the Wii + Nunchuck hasn't prevented it from becoming the best selling controller, not only for motion-controlled games but for traditional button games. Hell, even Sony tried to shoehorn motion controls into it's launch controller. With the Sixaxis and the Arc, they obviously think motion controls are a good idea, and they're likely trying to integrate them into a more traditional controller for the PS4. Likewise, Microsoft thinks that they can segment the market into a Natal and a Traditional Controller market, but I don't think that's gonna work. They're either gonna have to find a way to fit the two together into a single controller, or they're going to fail as a company for refusing to provide the technology that people want.

Yeah I totally agree. If they come up with a design that does everything a traditional controller does AND has motion controls then that would be ideal. Nintendo's Wii + Nunchuck is pretty close but I think in order for it to be the ideal controller for both control schemes it is going to have to make a few changes, more buttons, additional Analog stick and maybe a few other tweaks. I'm interested to see what Sony does with theirs but I don't think they have any attachments planned yet which I think is a big mistake and since they already have the DS3 now for traditional games I think the motion controller will be very basic. I hope next generation they can learn from this generation and make 1 controller that can do everything.