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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Shigeru Miyamoto's crazy take on side-scrolling 2D Mario

In the most recent Q&A session with investors, there was one interesting question: Q6.

https://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/pdf/2021/211105_2e.pdf

Also, what are your thoughts on the differences between 3D Mario and side-scrolling 2D Mario in game software?

As for the difference between 2D Mario and 3D Mario, let me explain by describing the background for the development of the Wii game New Super Mario Bros. Wii, which was released in 2009. At the time, it felt like each time we created a new installment in the Super Mario series — which by then had expanded into 3D — it became more complicated. After the release of Super Mario Galaxy in 2007, the goal was to develop a more accessible 3D Super Mario game, and the result was New Super Mario Bros. Wii, a basic side-scrolling Super Mario game that even new players could easily play. That later led to the release of the even simpler
Super Mario Run game (a mobile application released in 2016.) When we develop software, we strive to incorporate new elements, but at the same time we want to make it easy for even firsttime players to have fun. Recently, people of all generations have been enjoying the 3D Mario game Super Mario Odyssey (released in 2017,) so for 3D Mario going forward, we want to try expanding further in new ways. 

...

It isn't news that Shigeru Miyamoto is against Nintendo making 2D Mario games and that's why it isn't surprising that already nine years have passed since Nintendo's last game (New Super Mario Bros. U). His explanation above points in the direction of this drought not coming to an end anytime soon, because apparently NSMB Wii is now a more accessible 3D Mario game and not what it actually is, something entirely different. With this make-believe explanation where every Super Mario game belongs to the same line, 2D Mario has become obsolete as Miyamoto's conclusion sees Nintendo only making 3D Mario going forward.

Any reasonable person would have said that the differences between 3D Mario and side-scrolling 2D Mario are so pronounced that it's necessary for Nintendo to make both types of games. It has been less than a week ago that Green Bay Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers put out the stunner "I am a man of science" while having received homeopathic treatment to get immunized against the coronavirus. That was already a very high level of stupid, but Shigeru Miyamoto managed to top it. What makes Miyamoto's delusion so much worse is that it will take many years until it is resolved whereas Rodgers merely misses a game or two for his team due to testing positive for COVID-19.

Shigeru Miyamoto is a jackass.



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RolStoppable said:

In the most recent Q&A session with investors, there was one interesting question: Q6.

https://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/pdf/2021/211105_2e.pdf

Also, what are your thoughts on the differences between 3D Mario and side-scrolling 2D Mario in game software?

As for the difference between 2D Mario and 3D Mario, let me explain by describing the background for the development of the Wii game New Super Mario Bros. Wii, which was released in 2009. At the time, it felt like each time we created a new installment in the Super Mario series — which by then had expanded into 3D — it became more complicated. After the release of Super Mario Galaxy in 2007, the goal was to develop a more accessible 3D Super Mario game, and the result was New Super Mario Bros. Wii, a basic side-scrolling Super Mario game that even new players could easily play. That later led to the release of the even simpler
Super Mario Run game (a mobile application released in 2016.) When we develop software, we strive to incorporate new elements, but at the same time we want to make it easy for even firsttime players to have fun. Recently, people of all generations have been enjoying the 3D Mario game Super Mario Odyssey (released in 2017,) so for 3D Mario going forward, we want to try expanding further in new ways. 

...

It isn't news that Shigeru Miyamoto is against Nintendo making 2D Mario games and that's why it isn't surprising that already nine years have passed since Nintendo's last game (New Super Mario Bros. U). His explanation above points in the direction of this drought not coming to an end anytime soon, because apparently NSMB Wii is now a more accessible 3D Mario game and not what it actually is, something entirely different. With this make-believe explanation where every Super Mario game belongs to the same line, 2D Mario has become obsolete as Miyamoto's conclusion sees Nintendo only making 3D Mario going forward.

Any reasonable person would have said that the differences between 3D Mario and side-scrolling 2D Mario are so pronounced that it's necessary for Nintendo to make both types of games. It has been less than a week ago that Green Bay Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers put out the stunner "I am a man of science" while having received homeopathic treatment to get immunized against the coronavirus. That was already a very high level of stupid, but Shigeru Miyamoto managed to top it. What makes Miyamoto's delusion so much worse is that it will take many years until it is resolved whereas Rodgers merely misses a game or two for his team due to testing positive for COVID-19.

Shigeru Miyamoto is a jackass.

What can I say except that while I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment behind the jackass comment, I feel that many jackasses of the world will be feeling impugned by this association and may point out other words that sit far higher up the rankings scale when it comes to terms for idiocy.

Last edited by mjk45 - on 09 November 2021

Pretty sure Miyamoto doesn't have much say on that anymore. He works on other stuff now. Wether they make another 2D Mario or not isn't his decision.



Miyamoto's career has been amazing overall but his later years have seen a decline so it's good his influence at Nintendo is much smaller than it used to be. At this point it's best if he does small side projects and assists with stuff like the upcoming film instead of handling big games.

Also the Switch might go its entire life without getting an original mainline 2D Mario game which is insane after how well the ones on the DS and Wii did.

Last edited by Norion - on 09 November 2021

You are right, that is a crazy take.



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Prepare his effigy for burning.



Personally, I took his comment to mean "We've created the extremely accessible 3D Mario game. Now we want to make a 3D Mario game that is much different than that".



New Super Mario Bros games ranged from mediocre at best to terrible. They all looked the same. Played roughly the same. Same annoying music and lack of art style. Just some felt more slippery to control. That Wii U one was esp bad. Every level felt like an ice level. I swear without the Mario name those games would be forgotten or shat on.

Super Mario World is the best Mario game ever made period. I'd love a 2D animated style of something similar. Since Wario Shake it I have wanted a 2D Mario in a similar style.

I like Mario 64,3D World and Odyssey. I would like a 3D Mario similar to 64 or Odyssey I can play as Luigi.



Bite my shiny metal cockpit!

Leynos said:

New Super Mario Bros games ranged from mediocre at best to terrible. They all looked the same. Played roughly the same. Same annoying music and lack of art style. Just some felt more slippery to control. That Wii U one was esp bad. Every level felt like an ice level. I swear without the Mario name those games would be forgotten or shat on.

You will get a lot of heat for stating your opinion, so I'm here only to say that I agree with you. To date, the deluxe edition of New Super Mario Bros U is the only Switch game that I've played and found so lame that I resold it jut about 6 hours after started playing it. After mainline Pokemon is the weakest Nintendo franchise 



Look, I don't agree with everything Miyamoto says. Some things he says or thinks is just plain stupid for sure. Like his insistence on unnecessary and intrusive gimmicks which ruined Star Fox and why F-Zero remains dormant (because he feels the need to think of a cool gimmick for it in order to bring it back instead of, y'know, just making a great, kickass racing game with online.)

But as far as 2D Mario goes, after the NSMB series, if they never made a new 2D Mario game again, I'd honestly be perfectly fine with it. If they ever do make a new 2D game, it better be something completely original with outlandish ideas and something that pushes the boundaries and imagination of what a 2D Mario be. Something that they've accomplish with the 3D Mario games MULTIPLE times. (64, Galaxy, Odyssey. Hell, even Bowser's Fury showed glimpses of what an open, traditional 3D Mario game could be like with the classic power-up system from the 2D Games + 3D Land/World.)

If all they've got is to do the New Mario style AGAIN, then I would just rather they make something else. A new IP or bring back an old one. Because I am well beyond sick of the New Mario series.

Last edited by PAOerfulone - on 10 November 2021