Forums - Politics Discussion - Official 2020 US Election: Democratic Party Discussion

I wake up, and Bernie proceeds to disappoint me first thing in the morning.

Bernie for almost his entire time in Politics: "Both Parties are corrupt, the system is corrupt and we need to change the system so that it works for working class people"

Bernie after a surrogate calls out Joe Biden, the literally torch bearer of the corrupt dem establishment right now, on corruption: "I apologize, Biden isn't corrupt."

Bernie.... You need to stop playing patty-cakes with these people out to destroy you, do not give an inch. Call a spade a spade. He is literally the embodiment of pay to play corruption and you're letting him get away with this because you probably want to focus on Policy. I get it, and Joe's record is really god awful, but this aint it. You need to stop bringing a freaking spoon to a gun fight. Things like this is why Joe can win and that worries me because Joe can't beat Biden and Bernie is too nice and it makes him look weak. This is so disappointing.



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Mnementh said:
jason1637 said:

Government should never be trusted to handle most industries. There should definitly be restriction in the private sector but it shouldnt be government ran because they can't be trusted. I don't trust the government so it I would make no sense for me to want them to run mor eindustries. Like I said capitalism isnt perfect but imo it's the best economic system we have so far an you can still have a capitalist economy but you can implement policies that amke the economy work for the people like Yang has been promising.

That is something I don't understand. In modern countries governments are controlled by Democracy. You can elect the persons running it. On the other hand private industry means some random guy controls the company and in the long run (because of capitalistic pressures) these of the random guys win out, that are most cut-throat oriented towards making winnings on the cost of everything else: security, people, human rights, environment. All these stuff has to be imposed on the industry through laws. Why not let some key industries be run by people you can elect?

Democracy is good on paper but realistically that's not how it works. You can support  certain set of policies and vote for that person but if they lose that doesn't mean I have to support what they're doing. If Trump wins the popular vote in 2020 and gets a second term are you going to automatically support what he does because that's who the people elected? I'd assume not. 

Also the government is always changing. During a president's term we get multiple people running different parts of the executive branch as people quit,  the government gets a shake up every 2 years. We can go from a socialist to a staunch conservative government in the span of 2 years. I'd be hard to trust some industries ran by different people with in some cases totally different perspectives.



uran10 said:

I wake up, and Bernie proceeds to disappoint me first thing in the morning.

Bernie for almost his entire time in Politics: "Both Parties are corrupt, the system is corrupt and we need to change the system so that it works for working class people"

Bernie after a surrogate calls out Joe Biden, the literally torch bearer of the corrupt dem establishment right now, on corruption: "I apologize, Biden isn't corrupt."

Bernie.... You need to stop playing patty-cakes with these people out to destroy you, do not give an inch. Call a spade a spade. He is literally the embodiment of pay to play corruption and you're letting him get away with this because you probably want to focus on Policy. I get it, and Joe's record is really god awful, but this aint it. You need to stop bringing a freaking spoon to a gun fight. Things like this is why Joe can win and that worries me because Joe can't beat Biden and Bernie is too nice and it makes him look weak. This is so disappointing.

Bernie's playing the long game. If he calls Biden corrupt and Biden wins the nomination he'd look stupid endorsing him.





uran10 said:
Bofferbrauer2 said:

Well, in most of Europe he would probably be a Social Democrat, maybe a Christian Democrat in some countries, but that would push him quite far to the left on some issues in such a party. Merkel not railing against healthcare is not a sign for centrism from Bernie, as this is really just one policy out of several dozens, some of which would be to far left for the Christian Democrats on their own, though feasible in a coalition government.

But you're right on american politics. I generally describe the democratic party as center-right and the GOP as right-wing (not far right or anything like that, though it attracts those types, too, since they don't have their own party with winner takes all), with the libertarians also as center-right and the Green Party USA as centist to center-left.

My guess is that this is an effect from the two red scares (one after the Red October in 1917 and a much bigger one after WW2) which pushed the US further and further to the right, plus Reagan's demonizing of the government, not realizing that due to the horseshoe effect, the non-economic policies actually getting closer to what the soviets had than what they were before the red scare during FDR's time.

I just want to say one thing to this and that's that you're giving the republican party and even the dem party a bit too much credit imo. You're more spot on with the dems, but I'd honestly call them more of a economically right wing party, while being culturally left wing (atleast on the surface), the republicans however, are legitimately far right wingers. I'm not talking everyday republicans walking the streets, the citizens. I'm talking look at their elected members. Outside of Rand Paul (who is pretty bad on domestic issues), and Mike Lee, the rest of the party is well...... yea.

Well, right wing is pretty narrow and pretty far to the right already. Just look at Germany for instance: AFD is right-wing, but not far-right, that would be the NPD. However, there's a very substantial overlap between the two. In fact, right wing parties are most often far-right with some more centrist policies thrown in and with the most blatant racism, xenophobia and the like curbed down a notch to not face legal troubles or other kinds of backlash. And in that regard, I consider this the perfect description of the GOP right now.

As for the Democrats, they include pretty much everything that's on the left from the GOP, so everything from center-left to left wing. But the establishment Democrats are pretty much all centrists to center-right, even culturally for the most part (it just looks much more like left wing since it's left from the GOP) and they are those who have been shaping most of the party until now. Bernie, the squad, millennials and Gen Z however are for the most part way to the left of where the Democratic party is right now, and are trying to pull the party more and more to the left. And that pull will continue over the next years.



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Ouch. Not the place, not the time, and definitely NOT the person who should be saying these things. Please stay out of the race Hillary.

But she did drop a truth bomb, and I wholeheartedly agree.

"I will say, however, that it's not only him, it's the culture around him. It's his leadership team. It's his prominent supporters. It's his online Bernie Bros and their relentless attacks on lots of his competitors, particularly the women. And I really hope people are paying attention to that because it should be worrisome that he has permitted this culture — not only permitted, [he] seems to really be very much supporting it. And I don't think we want to go down that road again where you campaign by insult and attack and maybe you try to get some distance from it, but you either don't know what your campaign and supporters are doing or you're just giving them a wink and you want them to go after Kamala [Harris] or after Elizabeth [Warren]. I think that that's a pattern that people should take into account when they make their decisions."

And thankfully, we have a living specimen proving this right in this thread.

Last edited by Moren - on 21 January 2020

jason1637 said:

Yeah, right. That's exactly why everybody flocked to get you elected, Hillary. Oh, wait...



Here's how it goes:
- Send a woman to attack Bernie baselessly
- He and his fan base defends Bernie
- Sexist bastards!
- rinse, repeat

Crooked Hillary and the not so native American aren't even using the correct labels to attack him. Bernie is a sexist? PUH LEASE. I have heard more credible criticism towards Bernie coming from the right. For real, someone like Tucker Carlson has put up better arguments against Bernie than these people. 

And she refuses to endorse anyone because "it's too early"... well you're basically endorsing anyone who's not Bernie, but you're either too dumb to see it or just plain crooked. 



Hillary Clinton still does not understand why she lost against the orange disaster. Or perhaps she does understand, and just doesn't want to take responsibility for the loss. That explains this excrement that she wrote.

Instead of blaming Bernie and his voters, maybe she should have campaigned better in the rust belt states, instead of expecting them to just be blue like always. She should have had the insight to do so when Bernie won in the primaries in those states. She should have done a better job campaigning, instead of that "her turn" nonsense, spouting the same corpdem rhetoric.




OTBWY said:

Instead of blaming Bernie and his voters, maybe she should have campaigned better in the rust belt states, instead of expecting them to just be blue like always. 

Not to be too harsh on her, because she did send someone else to do the job....