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The "Original Story" - The Kimba VS Simba Controversy, Disney The Lying King

Forums - Movies Discussion - The "Original Story" - The Kimba VS Simba Controversy, Disney The Lying King

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I feel betrayed 1 4.55%
 
My Childhood is a lie 1 4.55%
 
Disney is worst and Evil 5 22.73%
 
Murica 0 0.00%
 
I don't care i support plagiarisme 3 13.64%
 
LOL you are late to the party 12 54.55%
 
Total:22
PAOerfulone said:
Dude, just about all of Disney's big and famous movies were based on other works and stories.
The Lion King
Aladdin
The Little Mermaid
Mulan

Just to name a few.

Actually, Disney claimed The Lion King to be their first original story, despite it being a remake of Bambi.

The first original Disney story is actually Land and the Tramp.  Due to a bit of hand waving, though, credit was given to Ward Greene.  The movie started as a completely in house idea from Joe Grant based on his own Springer Spaniel named Lady where they played up the dog vs. new baby aspect. 

They toyed with the concept of Lady and the baby being the basis of the story for a few years until it was shelved.  Later, Walt then read a short story in Cosmopolitan (it was a much more literary magazine back then) written by Ward Greene called "Happy Dan, The Cynical Dog".  Walt liked Happy Dan and he became the prototype for Tramp.  Disney then tossed the idea back to his team for development.  It was on and off for another a decade going through several iterations before we got the movie we ended up with.

Ward Greene was hired by Disney to write the novelization and he got the "based on" credit.  But the truth is that Joe Grant should get most of the credit as it was his original idea and story ideas that later Disney story-borders managed to cobble together into a complete movie.



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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBSSFsHWpXk

Watch for yourself. I find the video at the start to be dishonest as fuck. The story bears absolutely no similarity that I can see to the Lion King except that they feature African animals. That's like, literally it. Maybe there's more similarities in the anime (but based on plot synopsis it doesn't seem like it) but I'm not going to watch all that since the movie kinda sucked.



JWeinCom said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBSSFsHWpXk

Watch for yourself. I find the video at the start to be dishonest as fuck. The story bears absolutely no similarity that I can see to the Lion King except that they feature African animals. That's like, literally it. Maybe there's more similarities in the anime (but based on plot synopsis it doesn't seem like it) but I'm not going to watch all that since the movie kinda sucked.

You're correct.  This is basically a conspiracy theory more about slamming Disney than investigation.  There are a few superficial similarities and sometime in like the 90s the internet ran with it to the point where it's been treated as an unquestioned fact in many corners.  Thing was, in the 90s and early 00s the internet didn't really have video blasting from every corner, so the conspiracy could be shown via a few pictures.  If the video were widely available the theory falls apart.

Most you can really make an argument for is that Disney lifted a few visuals, but movies do that all the time.



NightlyPoe said:
JWeinCom said:

You're correct.  This is basically a conspiracy theory more about slamming Disney than investigation.  There are a few superficial similarities and sometime in like the 90s the internet ran with it to the point where it's been treated as an unquestioned fact in many corners.  Thing was, in the 90s and early 00s the internet didn't really have video blasting from every corner, so the conspiracy could be shown via a few pictures.  If the video were widely available the theory falls apart.

Most you can really make an argument for is that Disney lifted a few visuals, but movies do that all the time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHps2iC8W3o

Seems pretty similar to me, there's zero chance at least a significant portion of Disney's animators did not know what they were doing. Tezuka was not exactly unknown, after all.

Inspiration is like Dune -> Star Wars. This is very much lifting and remaking. Of course, there are people who seemingly think, for instance, Sword of Shannara and the first book of Wheel of Time were "original" as well, so yeah.



 

 

 

 

 

I really, intensely don't care. There are a lot of stupid "movie controversies" as of late and all they do is clutter my youtube feed with worthless opinions. This obviously has some ground to it, but the Lion King is a good movie and that's all.



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haxxiy said:
NightlyPoe said:

You're correct.  This is basically a conspiracy theory more about slamming Disney than investigation.  There are a few superficial similarities and sometime in like the 90s the internet ran with it to the point where it's been treated as an unquestioned fact in many corners.  Thing was, in the 90s and early 00s the internet didn't really have video blasting from every corner, so the conspiracy could be shown via a few pictures.  If the video were widely available the theory falls apart.

Most you can really make an argument for is that Disney lifted a few visuals, but movies do that all the time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHps2iC8W3o

Seems pretty similar to me, there's zero chance at least a significant portion of Disney's animators did not know what they were doing. Tezuka was not exactly unknown, after all.

Inspiration is like Dune -> Star Wars. This is very much lifting and remaking. Of course, there are people who seemingly think, for instance, Sword of Shannara and the first book of Wheel of Time were "original" as well, so yeah.

I'll repeat: The most you can really make an argument for is that Disney lifted a few visuals.

But honestly, I doubt it was much.  Most of that supercut you have, is just that, a supercut.  Scenes are pasted together across several different episodes to build a Lion King scene.  And to pad things out, there's a ton of generic stuff that you would expect two properties with animated lions and other African animals to both share.

I seriously doubt that talented Disney storyboarders spent their time watching 100+ episodes of cheap Japanese animation to piece together visuals for a movie with a completely different story and tone.  And if they did, surely one of the animators or storyboarders would have spilled the beans in the years since even though most are either not with Disney anymore or completely out of the industry by now.  If it's a conspiracy, it's a remarkably closed-lipped one.

And it would be a pointless conspiracy at that.  Movies take inspiration from other movie's visuals all the time.

Also, for what it's worth, Dune is one of Star Wars's lesser inspirations.  The desert planet and the brief mention of "spice" (since excised by the Solo movie) are kinda all that got on screen.  Some of the earlier scripts have a bit more though, particularly Leia's cut Bene Gesserit-lite backstory.  It's not nothing, but it's small in comparison to how much Lucas openly lifted from Kurosawa, Buck Rogers, Lensman, and The Dam Busters.



I do not think any of the classic films are from stories that originated out of Disney.



NightlyPoe said:
JWeinCom said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBSSFsHWpXk

Watch for yourself. I find the video at the start to be dishonest as fuck. The story bears absolutely no similarity that I can see to the Lion King except that they feature African animals. That's like, literally it. Maybe there's more similarities in the anime (but based on plot synopsis it doesn't seem like it) but I'm not going to watch all that since the movie kinda sucked.

You're correct.  This is basically a conspiracy theory more about slamming Disney than investigation.  There are a few superficial similarities and sometime in like the 90s the internet ran with it to the point where it's been treated as an unquestioned fact in many corners.  Thing was, in the 90s and early 00s the internet didn't really have video blasting from every corner, so the conspiracy could be shown via a few pictures.  If the video were widely available the theory falls apart.

Most you can really make an argument for is that Disney lifted a few visuals, but movies do that all the time.

Ok, let me see if I understand this: We have two differet shows, both of them feature male lions as main characters, one called (S)imba and the other called (K)imba, both have a talking bird as sidekicks, both had their father killed when they were cubs, both of them talked to their dead father in a vision on the clouds.
Both shows feature a black haired lion with a scar in its left eye as a villain (with a group of hyenas as henchmen).

How you can call all of those similarities "superficial" is beyond me.



I knew about this, however what I didn't know is that Disney was claiming this as an "Original Work" during the promotional periods. That's really scummy.



chakkra said:
NightlyPoe said:

You're correct.  This is basically a conspiracy theory more about slamming Disney than investigation.  There are a few superficial similarities and sometime in like the 90s the internet ran with it to the point where it's been treated as an unquestioned fact in many corners.  Thing was, in the 90s and early 00s the internet didn't really have video blasting from every corner, so the conspiracy could be shown via a few pictures.  If the video were widely available the theory falls apart.

Most you can really make an argument for is that Disney lifted a few visuals, but movies do that all the time.

Ok, let me see if I understand this: We have two differet shows, both of them feature male lions as main characters, one called (S)imba and the other called (K)imba, both have a talking bird as sidekicks, both had their father killed when they were cubs, both of them talked to their dead father in a vision on the clouds.
Both shows feature a black haired lion with a scar in its left eye as a villain (with a group of hyenas as henchmen).

How you can call all of those similarities "superficial" is beyond me.

Lol, I was thinking the same thing.